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  1. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 9:48am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is there really a self defense for weaklings?

    Last night in my jiu jitsu class 2 young ladies came in to check out the school. I'd say they were 17ish and very petite (well under 100 lbs each). They wanted to learn some self defense and grappling and I ended up working with them for the first part of class.

    I showed them some wristlocks from various grabs (kote mawashi, kote gaeshi) and let them practice on me and on each other. Each of them got the form fairly correct, and was able to achieve the lock with some guidance, but during the instruction I found myself doubting whether they could make this work under pressure even under the best circumstances. The reason for my doubt was simply that they were so physically weak and small.

    Granted they were new and being typically nervous and gentle, but I encouraged them to increase the pressure some, corrected the hand/wrist angles, control and positioning to maximize the lock. Even then I think I could have stood out or flexed out of the lock fairly easily.

    I really wanted to encourage the girls to stick around because we don't have many females training with us - 1 pro fighter who is an instructor, and 3 other adult women in the classes. My problem is that I don't know what physical techniques would actually work for someone so tiny and frail. I don't want to encourage these young ladies down an unrealistic path.

    My thought is that de-escalation (ala Gracie's Bullyproof program), and environmental and situational awareness would clearly be the best strategies. I made sure to point out the basic awareness stuff and the get loud & gtfo strategy as we worked, too.

    This is my first time instructing such physically small adults; I've worked with the kids class plenty, but it's different for me mentally because we don't teach kids the same program that we do for adults.

    Do any instructors have feedback on this? How Do help these young ladies stay safe and keep them encouraged and interested in MA without misleading them about their real place in the bad guy hierarchy?
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln



  2. gregaquaman is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 9:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nobody is able to win every fight or to defend every attack. Lebells thread is a good example of that.
    Like eveybody else in the world they need to work within their own limitations
  3. ermghoti is online now
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    Middleweight

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    OW, MY KNEE
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 9:56am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    Otherwise, I would be honest with them. Once they get their technique together, up the resistance/aliveness. Let them know that without strength training, grappling will be difficult. It's more important for them to respect their own limitations than to embrace a false confidence/arrogance.
  4. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 10:09am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJJ. Yes really. Go role with a tiny purple belt or higher. Ask them to not take it easy.
  5. judoka_uk is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 10:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is why I tell all the girls who ask about it at Fresher's that we don't teach self-defence and then I give them a little speech about how nothing I can teach them will stop a 20 stone bloke from hurting them if he really wants to. And tell them not being drunk and stupid on their own and in dodgy places is the best self-defence you can do.

    Then I warn them off the self-defence merchants like Jiujitsu and all the associated other ****** martial arts, by making fun of their representatives, insulting their manhood and challenging them to come to randori and unleash their deadly..

    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    My thought is that de-escalation (ala Gracie's Bullyproof program), and environmental and situational awareness would clearly be the best strategies. I made sure to point out the basic awareness stuff and the get loud & gtfo strategy as we worked, too.
    This is basically the only usable thing they could be taught, but how many people who teach proper martial arts are actually trained in/ accomplished enough to teach this? Also timescale even if I was qualified to teach this I wouldn't want to waste valuable session time on it.
  6. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 10:16am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    BJJ. Yes really. Go role with a tiny purple belt or higher. Ask them to not take it easy.
    We don't have any purples that are less than 175lb. I would actually love to roll with someone that small and that much better than me. I might actually believe the Helio stories a little more.
    "Never trust a quote you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln



  7. Prince Vlad is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 10:27am


     Style: BJJ n stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    48kg Ryoko Tamura (judo) - not many guys around that she couldn't smash into oblivion



  8. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 10:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I basically agree with Judoka_UK, with the caveat that if they did actually do Judo or BJJ, it would be helpful to them in terms of overall physical ability. I've done Judo with -48 kg women who would be quite capable of putting up a defense against much larger men.

    But overall, situational awareness, staying out of bad situations, and being armed and trained in the use/deployment of those weapons along with Judo or BJJ would be most useful.

    But they may not want to put that much time or effort into the process.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 11:08am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Strength is one factor of many, but with a big enough difference it can be overwhelming.

    I don't think comparing people in a groundwork competition with no striking allowed gives a full picture.
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  10. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2011 12:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    BJJ. Yes really. Go role with a tiny purple belt or higher. Ask them to not take it easy.
    I eat tiny purple belts.

    Which is why I say NO there isn't really any physical SD for lil people.
    The best thing for little people is awareness and avoidance.

    It takes an extremely good lil guy to beat a bigger guy in a physical confrontation.
    It take a mediocre physically superior guy to curb stomp the vast majority of lil guys out there.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
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