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  1. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 10:02am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kid BJJ and Injuring to Degree

    As far as I know, this is a true story.

    Johnny and Alex are classmates in 4th grade. Johnny studies BJJ. One morning they get in an arguement on the playground during school. Alex hauls off and punches at Johnny's head. Johnny ducks, double leg, mounts, and punches Alex in the face 1 time. He then tells Alex he shouldn't have tried to hit him and dismounts, helping Alex up. Johnny gets called to the principal and explains his side of the story and says "I hit him, but I didn't break his arm or anything bad."

    One of the tenets that Johnny's BJJ school teaches is to injure to degree. In other words use the appropriate amount of force when in a conflict.

    Is this an appropriate degree of response from Johnny?
    What should the teacher who observed the encounter do?
    What should Johnny's BJJ instructor do?

    I have a 7 yr old son and a 5 yr old daughter. I'm curious what instructors and other parents think of this.
  2. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 10:12am

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    my immediate reaction: he was doing great till he punched him. he should not be striking an already controlled opponent (at the very least, not on school grounds), and should be reprimanded for that, and should learn from the lesson. if he does that, he should also get a stripe.

    where's asia? i seem to recall he's got a vaguely similar story about his daughter.
    Last edited by pauli; 4/12/2010 10:16am at .
  3. Arskanator is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 11:12am


     Style: Hokutoryu Ju-jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I don't have any kids and I don't know **** about raising kids, but I don't think Johnny did anything wrong. A single punch from mount just kinda shows the other kid that the game is over.

    Using the appropriate amount of force when in a conflict is a good rule for any MA school. Clearly Johhny didn't want to hurt his classmate, to me it sounds that the punch had more of a 'cut that **** out or imma break you' message. I've found that repeated, hard slaps with an open hand from mount have a disarming effect.

    But then again, like I said, I'm no expert. Far from it.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 11:20am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli View Post
    my immediate reaction: he was doing great till he punched him. he should not be striking an already controlled opponent (at the very least, not on school grounds), and should be reprimanded for that, and should learn from the lesson. if he does that, he should also get a stripe.

    where's asia? i seem to recall he's got a vaguely similar story about his daughter.
    Without reading any further I agree 100% with this statement.
  5. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 11:56am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli View Post
    my immediate reaction: he was doing great till he punched him. he should not be striking an already controlled opponent (at the very least, not on school grounds), and should be reprimanded for that, and should learn from the lesson. if he does that, he should also get a stripe.
    I'm with you on this 100% and I will speak as the parent and instructor.

    A couple of years ago (which would be 2 yrs. into my son's training) he was a 7 yr. old Second grader that had a similar altercation. Other kid threw a punch, my son ducked and slipped it and put the kid in a standing arm lock and told the other kid to stop.

    He was upset and went and told the teacher what happened. I got called to the school however I didn't let it go any further. I told the teacher that far as I was concerned all my son did was deescalate the situation and didn't hurt the other kid and I saw no reason for him to be punished at school or at home. I also told them the other kid was lucky he didn't get seriously hurt.

    They asked me what I meant by that comment and I pointed out he didn't strike the kid, he restrained him in a manner that wouldn't hurt the other kid, unless the other kid continued to fight and struggle.

    Told him I was proud of him for not getting hurt and not unnecessarily hurting the other kid. Told the school's head instructor and he talked with my son, told him he did right, reminded him he didn't get hurt and he didn't hurt the other kid despite having the ability to do so....and my son was fine after all that.


    Edit Note:

    my story doesn't reference BJJ, so if this is a problem....

    TOO DAMN BAD this thread is in YMAS!!
    Last edited by Snake Plissken; 4/12/2010 12:00pm at .
  6. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 12:05pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Snake, you got the point. It's not the bjj it's the degree of injury/control I'm concerned with.
  7. Jimmai is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 5:45pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not a parent or an instructor or anything, but I'ma spout my point of view anyway and here it is:

    What Johnny did sounds perfectly acceptable to me, sure he didn't HAVE to sock the kid, but a single punch won't do much, kids aren't made of glass.
  8. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 6:22pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmai View Post
    I'm not a parent or an instructor or anything, but I'ma spout my point of view anyway and here it is:

    What Johnny did sounds perfectly acceptable to me, sure he didn't HAVE to sock the kid, but a single punch won't do much, kids aren't made of glass.
    The problem, right now in many places in the US, is:

    the concern for school violence/bullying
    -OR-
    the PERCEPTION of such
    and any inaction by the school district is magnified SHOULD there be any retaliation of the aggrieved parties.

    Most school districts would take the stance of suspending both of the kids.
  9. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 7:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Nothing - yet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    The problem, right now in many places in the US, is:

    the concern for school violence/bullying
    -OR-
    the PERCEPTION of such
    and any inaction by the school district is magnified SHOULD there be any retaliation of the aggrieved parties.

    Most school districts would take the stance of suspending both of the kids.
    How long has it been like that in the US? I'm thinking back to my time at school (80s) and I remember doing unto others and having done unto me *far* worse than that in the playground - and the most that ever happened was that I (or whoever) got told off. I once got my head bounced off a wall three times (black eye, cut lip and bloody face) and the school never told my parents (just got told to hold a wet paper towel on it and go back to class), nor did they do anything to the other kid except send him to the headmaster for a shouting-at.

    Times change, huh?
  10. Ninnong is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 7:23pm


     Style: Aiki Jujitsu, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I respect the kid to honest. He did what had to be done and while the last punch was a little out of line he still showed a lot of self control. Of course, I've read Lord of the Flies way too many times so any time a kid stops short of stabbing someone with a spear I think they're doing a great job. Of course, I'm not a parent but if my kid got hit I'd probably be angry but if he was the one who was screwing around then he'd be in trouble.
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