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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    May 2004
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    10,473

    Posted On:
    6/23/2005 6:48pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mother Mantooth was a saint, Ron Burgandy. You take that back right now.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

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    Jun 2005
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    1,927

    Posted On:
    6/23/2005 11:35pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I, too, was a victim of West Wind, in the 1970's- I escaped after 3 years. Say what you will, but Black Belt had an article " Would you buy a used Karate Gi from this man?". I mentioned some of the cheesy quotes were straight from the article, which was about a Tracy kempo sales manual. The Tracy's got their ideas of profit maximizing from the Arthur Murray dance schools, which were a ripoff in their own right. Once I saw their reaction, it was like Neo swallowing the little pill. My eyes were opened.Yes, you never saw the instructors train, because the sucked! As soon as the semi athletic, college age blue belts seemed like good potential sales men, they were suddenly red belts ( accelerated training belt/Instructor belt) I remember smacking this guy around in one of the priveate lesson rooms, and bowing to him a week later. "Shazam! He's a bac ass!". I could go on and on about the pressure tactics, etc, but instead, I can say, unequivocally, that west wind, east west, and all other Bok Fu schools are premium bullshido and exposing schools like this is what this site should be all about. These kinds of schools cna and have gotten people hurt, violated and I'm sure killed.
  3. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    3,360

    Posted On:
    6/24/2005 12:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65
    It's just so sad that the places that teach absolutely worthless bullshido charge the most. Then BJJ, judo, boxing, etc tend to be the cheapest. Someone actually said to me once that I couldn't be learning that much at my gym cause it was so cheap.
    I thought quality BJJ was getting expensive these days.... least thats what my BJJ instructor said. He pays like 150 a month.
  4. Wounded Ronin is offline
    Wounded Ronin's Avatar

    ...is THE PENETRATOR

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,812

    Posted On:
    6/24/2005 12:02am

    supporting member
     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    I, too, was a victim of West Wind, in the 1970's- I escaped after 3 years. Say what you will, but Black Belt had an article " Would you buy a used Karate Gi from this man?". I mentioned some of the cheesy quotes were straight from the article, which was about a Tracy kempo sales manual. The Tracy's got their ideas of profit maximizing from the Arthur Murray dance schools, which were a ripoff in their own right. Once I saw their reaction, it was like Neo swallowing the little pill. My eyes were opened.Yes, you never saw the instructors train, because the sucked! As soon as the semi athletic, college age blue belts seemed like good potential sales men, they were suddenly red belts ( accelerated training belt/Instructor belt) I remember smacking this guy around in one of the priveate lesson rooms, and bowing to him a week later. "Shazam! He's a bac ass!". I could go on and on about the pressure tactics, etc, but instead, I can say, unequivocally, that west wind, east west, and all other Bok Fu schools are premium bullshido and exposing schools like this is what this site should be all about. These kinds of schools cna and have gotten people hurt, violated and I'm sure killed.

    They've been around since the 70s? Wow.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  5. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

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    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,927

    Posted On:
    6/24/2005 12:21am


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, West Wind started as east west karate, and when the Kung Fu boom hit, Ron L. bought out some of the schools. At the same, they came up with the name of Bok Fu, and the Kempo became "Kung Fu". I know at least on Muay Thai guy that had been a Bok Fu student that still believed he had learned "Chinese Kung Fu". The concept was, that if you practised the techniques, even if you weren't a good fighter, or sucked at sparring, in a life and death situation ou would suddenly and automatically "apply" the techniques and kick ass. Well, I bought into this crap and recieved a couple of nice, humiliating beatings, that embarressed me to this day. I now realize that I was learning mostly crap, and that this was not an uncommon result from mcdojo training. I actually learned more about application from training for free, at an inner city Tae Kwon Do class for inner city Youths. Being the only white kid in the class, also helped toughen me up, mentally. The kids were cool though, and they concentrated on alot of hands and kicking rough sparring. Yes, it wasn't BJJ, but it saved my ass. It also gave me a cooler head so that I did apply some of the gouging kempo moves in later brawls.
  6. I aint punchy!? is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    686

    Posted On:
    6/24/2005 12:45am


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On the topic of money. We used to charge hardly anything for 3 sessions of 2 hours of Arnis a week. We found that if you said... its free!.. just come and train...people would join but they would quit easily. If you had a joining fee and monthly fees people hung around longer.

    I put it down to a few facts:

    1) lots of people are keen but when they have to train hard they get lazy and watch the TV.

    2) THE CONCORDE FALACY: The concorde was built way over budget. Whenever they would run out of money they had to go back and get more... and their argument was... look at how much you've spent. If you don't get what you wanted out of this it'll all be wasted.

    3) NO EXPERIENCE TO MAKE JUDGEMENT: Studies have shown that if I buy the same car for lots more than I really should have I'll justify it by saying 'But the car is great!'. If I get the same car for free or really cheap I'll treat the car like **** and say its a piece of crap.

    You tie these together and the sad truth is that if you charge a lot then people will think that its cos what you teach is worth a lot. If its free they'll take it for granted. If they sign up they wont want to leave cos they'll want to hang in there and get the real stuff, even if they don't ever see anything that even hints of it.
  7. HRMERoar is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    30

    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 2:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    OMG..I too went had fallen for McDojo

    Former WW student as well. Would love to chat with ya..Same situation, working on finding new dojo and getting my ass out of debt..lol
  8. Darkpaladin is offline
    Darkpaladin's Avatar

    The r34l Drunken Jiu Jitsu

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,193

    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 3:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: _razilian _iu _itsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    THREAD NECROMANCY!!!

    But at least you used the search function :google:
    :google:

    Number of bottles of beer downed by me and my girlfriend within a half hour while playing the Channel 7 "how many times will they say 'snow' game" during the "Blizzard of '06": 3.5 each.
  9. losttrak is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Tx
    Posts
    348

    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 8:13pm


     Style: Mizong Quan, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW, the double-handed secret shake really isnt a secret. It is a sign of respect in Asian culture (though I can only speak of Chinese/Japanese from experience). When you take someone's hand you respect, you hold it in both hands as if it were precious. If someone gives you something and you wish to be formal, you will always grab it with both hands... never one. Keep your eyes open for that and you might be surprised how often it occurs. I am reminded of that picture of the Pride guys visiting Fedor in is homeland. Nothing but double-handshakes to Fedor.
  10. losttrak is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Tx
    Posts
    348

    Posted On:
    1/25/2006 8:20pm


     Style: Mizong Quan, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OOoh, here is some more trivia. Do you know why Chinese people sometimes tap the table three times when you pour their tea or give them food?


    Way back in the day, a Chinese emperor, whose name I forget, would disguise himself and one of his attendants and travel the country to learn about the problems in the empire. Once while in public, the emperor poured his attendant some tea. It is customary for someone to kowtow, tapping your head to the ground three times, when the emperor performs a kindess. Instead of the kowtow, which would obviously betray the emperor's identity, the attendant tapped the table three times to symbolize the act of subservience. Thus, what I call the "triple tap" was born. It no longer means the individual is subservient but rather a subtle way of saying "thank you" at the table.
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