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  1. I aint punchy!? is offline

    Registered Member

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    Apr 2005
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    686

    Posted On:
    6/17/2005 10:40pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what bs ... as if choking someone in 'self-defense' is going to stand up in court.... you are attacking them from behind, so how are you going to demonstrate a real and immediate threat? ... anyone who uses that for self-defense better have the best lawyer in the world.

    low stances are very good at close range because they lower your centre of gravity and give pulls more force, and can be used to escape holds etc. The problem with them is that people fight from low stances at long range.... erm... a tad stoopid.
  2. Poop Loops is offline
    Poop Loops's Avatar

    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    10,026

    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 12:17am

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many a time have I started facing my opponent and ended up taking his back or vice versa. It's actually quite easy to do when you know what you are doing, and the other guy doesn't. And if I get a RNC in, I'm not letting go.

    PL
  3. Painful Delight is offline

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    Jun 2005
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 12:29am


     Style: Shito-ryu, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Poop-Loops
    Many a time have I started facing my opponent and ended up taking his back or vice versa. It's actually quite easy to do when you know what you are doing, and the other guy doesn't. And if I get a RNC in, I'm not letting go.

    PL


    If you have the skill to get behind and perform a RNC on an opponent, you likely wouldn't need a Velcro-choking watch thingy.
  4. Poop Loops is offline
    Poop Loops's Avatar

    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

    Join Date
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    Americastan
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 12:32am

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know. Punchy said choke, which means any choke. There are MANY chokes out there. And even the ones from behind don't require you to sneak up on your opponent, just GET behind him.

    PL
  5. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,120

    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 7:07am


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PL, if you're in a superior position to end the fight, you're going to have a really hard time justifying your actions as self-defence before a court. By taking the back, you already have the option to get yourself out of danger. BJJ's best street application, I can imagine, would be to get you out of a bad position rather than to take good position and choke a bitch out. Honestly, I can't imagine a court looking too kindly on submissions in general, especially if they result in real damage. A court will probably imagine you hitting back in self-defence, but the fact that a submission automatically places you in a controlling position in the engagement is not going to look good. They're going to rationalise that if you already control the fight, you should be making best efforts to get out of it rather than to inflict unnecessary damage.

    Edit: in response to Painful Delight: If you have the skill to take an opponent's back, you probably have the skill to just run away. A choke is in most instances, legally unnecessary.
    Last edited by lifetime; 6/18/2005 7:11am at .
    Rad ki was made up by adolescents. I do not know who created trad ki but it was not made by adolescents. your an ass dude, Im not being a little bitch you are, your past the level of a bitch. Your beyond Bitch! If im easting my time with ki and psi, then your wasting time to prove frauds, and all **** like that! -theoutsider

    Kick boxing is ok, but don't expect do beat a man like Rickson Gracie with that. You need a real martial art. You need Xing Yi Quan. -Emptyflower

    The splits, how ever, have a few martial uses. Doing the splits for me, can put my fists in testical strike range.

    dont ignore the Art for the Martial or else your just kick boxing

    Yes i am serious, there are kicks that can block punches. we have them in Moo duk kwan.
    I want to learn how to use them in case my arm gets broken in a fight.
    what would you have me do? if my arm gets broke, not block punches? -sempi-stone
  6. MattJ is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2005
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    Pennsylvania, USA
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    229

    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 8:36am


     Style: JKD , Spirit Fingers

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mr Mantis -

    I have never been able to use those kinds of stances, nor do I ever see them in competitions (except forms). I was refering to competition or SD value.
  7. patfromlogan is offline
    patfromlogan's Avatar

    Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    Hilo Island of Hawaii
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    8,831

    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 8:47am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think putting together a dumbass kata is a great idea. We could take moves from the 3 stooges; finger poke, hand up with the thumb to the nose defense against finger poke, the slapidy slap slap, the nose twist, and so forth.
  8. Fantasy Warrior is offline
    Fantasy Warrior's Avatar

    Misguided style basher

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    Dec 2004
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    USA
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    2,714

    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 11:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pat, cheers for the moral support. Keep the suggestions rolling.

    PL/ lifetime/ I ain't Punchy,
    We all know that in SD it's not so much what you do, but how you desribe it to the court. Saying:
    "I wanted to do him fast so I got into a dominate position and executed a rear-naked choke with figure-four lock up, he went unconscious as I'd intended"
    ....is crapper than saying:
    "He was coming at me, I was scared. In the tussel I found myself hanging around his shoulders. I squeezed to stop him trying to hit me. He collapsed so I let go and at that moment, I reckoned he was no longer attacking me so I made my escape"
    ...both accounts of the same event. Savvy???? lol.

    Anyway, no such choke holds in the bullshido kata as they tend to be too likely to succeed. We need crap factor *100
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  9. Kayne is offline
    Kayne's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Sep 2004
    Location
    Perth, WA
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    444

    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 9:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Capoeira

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm, a choker watch? Why not just use your other arm?
    I'm not drowning my sorrows, I'm preserving them in alcohol.
  10. felixmeister is offline

    Registered Member

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    Sep 2004
    Location
    Perth WA
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    89

    Posted On:
    6/18/2005 9:00pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lifetime
    PL, if you're in a superior position to end the fight, you're going to have a really hard time justifying your actions as self-defence before a court. By taking the back, you already have the option to get yourself out of danger. BJJ's best street application, I can imagine, would be to get you out of a bad position rather than to take good position and choke a bitch out. Honestly, I can't imagine a court looking too kindly on submissions in general, especially if they result in real damage.
    Chokeing is probably the least damageing of the things you could do to someone in a fight (apart from running away). To kill or permanently damage somone you would have to keep the choke on for at a couple of minutes. Plus it's a fight ender, once they're unconcious, game over.

    A court will probably imagine you hitting back in self-defence, but the fact that a submission automatically places you in a controlling position in the engagement is not going to look good. They're going to rationalise that if you already control the fight, you should be making best efforts to get out of it rather than to inflict unnecessary damage.
    It could quite easily be argued that you feared for them chasing you down, and a doctor will be able to testify that out of the options of 1. chokeing them out, 2. beating them unconcious, 3. breaking a limb or joint with a sub, 4. similar damage with a chin-na or akido small joint break, that the choke is the least damaging to the victim.

    Edit: in response to Painful Delight: If you have the skill to take an opponent's back, you probably have the skill to just run away. A choke is in most instances, legally unnecessary.
    This would also preclude hitting, tripping, or subbing the attacker as if you have the skill to take an opponent's back, you probably have the skill to just run away.
    Once you have let go of them, unless you have done something to diminish their ability to continue attacking, running away is simply presenting your back for them to attack, not the best option.
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