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  1. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 3:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    Some do, but not all have the body contact.

    There is a difference between internal and external conditioning.

    In internal conditioning you concentrate, you visualize, you focus accordingly, you breathe a certain way with certain movements, you do it in silence or without distraction, you tighten your spinchter when appropriate and the rest of the body is relaxed.

    In external conditioning you go as hard as you can, you take as much impact as you can stand, you go as gut wrenching and intense as you possibly can and still do your exercise.

    Internal exercise programs and external exercise programs feel different when performed.

    Hath internal no value? No no. Will you realize gains quicker through external exercises, yes you will. But you will always get out of something what you put in.

    As to the value of internal exercises, lets look at a system, a whole style.

    Hung Gar is a southern CMA it uses very low stances, it is epitomized by it's reputation of being the hardest of the hard styles of kung fu.

    The exercise they value the most, the number one training program available is known as "Iron Thread" it is one of these iron body exercises, and it is internal.

    Why would they do that if all is found in the external?

    It was my understanding that, Ironshirt and Golden Bell involve Both internal and external.
    The external is done to protect they body till the internal can "take over"...
  2. xingyifa is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 3:17pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've seen variations ranging from almost entirely internal, to almost entirely external. One such internal method involved testing the results against "pushing" instead of actual strikes (to test the quality of the energy lol). Regardless, it almost certainly does not work as effectively as scientifically based external training. It is commonly used fraudulently. Bad bad bad.
  3. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 3:50pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    It was my understanding that, Ironshirt and Golden Bell involve Both internal and external.
    The external is done to protect they body till the internal can "take over"...
    I have learned exercises that have both internal and external components. But Iron Vest is all internal. (I don't have iron thread so I really can't comment on that, other than what I've been told, it's internal)

    I've never heard about the external to protect the body til internal can take over.
    We are surrounded by warships and dont have time to talk. Please pray for us. One Somali Pirate.
  4. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 6:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuDoesWork
    non sequitur Audio pronunciation of "non sequitur" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nn skw-tr, -tr)
    n.

    1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.
    2. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.

    I know what the word means , fool.
    YOu've read the definition, yet you have no fucking clue as to how to use the term in a discussion.

    Tell me what, in yor infinte wisdom, do the "breathians" dining soely on air have to do with chi gung practices which don't adovcate this.
    Both are silly and stupid beliefs that involve real world needs for people to live. Both draw incorrect conclusions from those observations and neither of them use scientific method. I am comparing myth to myth, that's how it's relevant to the discussion.

    I'm not going to answer the rest of your quotes , they're nothing but drivel.
    Yes, you can't deal with an intellectual debate.

    I can only shake my head and feel kind fo sorry for you.
    The psychics, mediums, scientologists and many other woo woo bleevers chant this mantra at me often.

    You stand in front of your mirror and sigh. Dreaming your power extends more than the 3 feet away to your bedroom door. Yo are just SO sure the world is what it is. And that everyone but you is a liar and draeming. Oh well, I know now what kind of person cries "witch".
    Yes, believers cry witch. I'm a skeptic. Give me evidence of people with superpowers, until then, I won't believe that people have such superpowers.

    I cannot doubt mine own eyes, What I feel and what i've done. I cannot say anymore if it all falls on deaf ears and blind eyes.
    Yes, true believers cannot doubt their own experiences. It's the drive of the delusion that keeps them believing that they've actually experienced the supernatural.

    My eyes are open, I'm listening and I'm asking.. yet the evidence for such extraordinary claims are lacking.

    www.randi.org one-million dollars, KFDW, it's all yours if you simply show that Chi is real. BTW, you still haven't defined what chi is.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  5. 777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 10:45pm


     Style: brawling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    You realise that Iron shirt training is VERY similar to most external methods of body conditioing, with the exception of placing far more emphasis on breathing.
    Its has all the external "hitting and slapping and conditoning" that most body conditioning entails.
    it has been suggested a number of times but xyf reverts back to his encounter with cheesy chi masters everytime external body conditioning is mentioned.

    his topic of interest is chi associated with ironshirt becos of his amusing past encounters.
  6. xingyifa is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2005 11:34pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've already stated that ironshirt, when it does work, works because of the same reasons that external training works. I still maintain that it is generally much less effective than external training and that it is generally associated with fraud in the martial arts.
  7. 777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2005 12:51am


     Style: brawling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sorry xyf, i forgot if u did mentioned this part b4, did u check out the history of your school?
    like, was its 'ironshirt' curriculum in place only within the recent 5 years or did it have a history of teaching it since 1980s?
  8. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2005 11:03am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you have never had the medicine, you've never done iron shirt.
    We are surrounded by warships and dont have time to talk. Please pray for us. One Somali Pirate.
  9. 777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2005 12:37pm


     Style: brawling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    If you have never had the medicine, you've never done iron shirt.
    trust me, they'll tell u medicine is properly documented by readily available lab reports and experimental procedures but not iron shirt.
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