6/11/2005 5:05pm, #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- jiu jitsu
why internal arts wont fight in the ufc
" Let's not forget that RULES play a big part as well. Combat and competition are very different. It's different fighting for winning a contest and fighting for your life. CMA guys get "stupified" when they are cut off from their main tactics by the rules and try to fight the other guy's game. I think in the street things might be drastically different. At least with XY guys, Baji guys, and others."
"In the street, you wouldnt be thinking of not using this or that (groin, eyes, throat etc). You would fight and react naturally taking all opportunties. Not seeing those opportunites and refraining or readjusting. The intent is much different. Some systems are not made for friendly (sport) matches with weight classes etc.. In the street it's survival at all costsand the ground may be a dangerous place to be. Just my 2."
" IMA are not sports fighting!
Someone shoots for you're legs.. fingers in the eye's.. elbow in the back of the neck.. ripping.. ect.
All the good stuff is banned in the ring, why would you want to train not to do these things?
If you play with rules it's not fighting.. and thats that!"
" I remember trying a Shoot style takedown on Alex once and him slapping me in the spine ......
..... I was nearly out cold!
IMA dont translate to MMA events too well..... As has been said - the tactics in MMA events are determined by the rules. Take those rules away and the tactics are pretty silly sometimes!"
" I agree with kingmonkey,no matter how hard you try to create a real fight(lack of rules)in a ring.You can never capture the need to survive that comes with a real street fight.But hey,the UFC fights are fun to watch."
" 3.MMA is a sport. IMO a very exciting and challenging sport. IMA does cross over to that sport. Golf is a sport. IMA crosses over. I have been a soldier and a law enforcement officer. Real Combat is about weapons employment, weapon retention, positioning, and movement. IMA crosses over into that as well. To train for any sport or activity, you need to practice the strategies that will produce victory----duh!
4.Labels and brand names dont fight. Most fighters are non IMA, but if you have any decent training at all, you should have an eye for attributes that they may naturally have that internal training tries to produce in a student
Are the points that I am trying to make coming through?"
" What I take from this and some life exp is that anybody has the potential to clean my clock.Fighting is not the same as sport although one may enhance the other.It also does not matter if one is ima or boxing or tkd,if they train like a maniac they have the potential to be dangerous.All serious martial artist deserve respect as do all human beings.One martial art is not inferior because it's students are not gung ho to play another martial arts game."
" I never trained specifically for MMA. The scope of the regular training already prepares someone to be comfortable with that level of pressure.
The main thing is mindset, and the unique method of training which cultivates that mindset.
There is no, "I train to win", in my tjq.
There is no, "I am the subject of the training"
There is no drilling of techniques - I don't believe in em.
There is no 'groundfighting', 'stand-up', 'takedowns', 'throws', etc. From commencement to closure, the physical interaction is just practice and observation of transition/change from a neutral perspective.
That all sounds real pretty and everything, but it aint.
Aside from the solo drills I've posted here, there's really nothing more to it. The same movement that is trained in those drills is applied to the 'sparring' and exploration of tjq's ideas. MMA and sub-wrestling comps are just one avenue of that exploration. "
Those are just some exmaples for you.
Last edited by JegerMeister; 6/11/2005 5:07pm at .
6/11/2005 6:38pm, #2
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
YOu don't sound too experienced. I agree real fight and sport is different, but it's as real as you can get without doing things stupit. and relying on nut shots, biting etc like it's some magic charm wont get you out, maybe 5% of techniques are illegal, that would mean 95% are, which should be all you need. you said you havent even trained for mma so how can you compare.
Quite a few true imaists have had open style fc fights in the form of laitai sanda. and some have done pretty well in shuai chia. so you can't say none of them ever compete. I've met one of those guys named Yang Guo Tai. but after dedicating for 40 years and finally starting to understand the satyle, most of them just don't care.
UFC is hard enough to get into already anyways, even if you want to compete, it's not so easy to get in, especially if you don't do the norm. It's stuff people are looking for, however they recruit.
Last edited by Whirl wind; 6/11/2005 6:43pm at .
6/11/2005 6:58pm, #3
Do they not have bare knuckle "just about anything goes" fighting bouts over in asia? I always assumed that there were...but maybe there really aren't?
Not to bash the MMA world, but for me when you put the gloves on you completely change the element of fighting. Its the difference between "Sport" and "Real Life". It becomes much more of a conditioning and endurance test rather then a fight for your life/honor/blood type thing.
I mean when I watch MMA type **** like UFC im just like oh look at the boxers. Oh...look at the boxers man grabbing each other for 2-3 minutes straight on the floor. That **** isn't martial arts. Its a mix of Boxing and Wrestling with a Kick thrown in everonce ina while.
I definately believe these UFC guys do know their MA and are amazing fighters even on the street. But I think Martial Arts get thrown out the window once they enter the "sport" ring.
http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/y...70702;start=45Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg
6/11/2005 9:29pm, #4
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- PTK & GJJ
apparently, just like smart people, stupid people happen all over the place...
6/11/2005 9:38pm, #5
One gut punch would put every single one of those posters on the ground trying to cultivate thier chi.
6/11/2005 9:58pm, #6
I'm sick and tired of hearing these piss weak excuses from internal martial artisits who say why their martial art is too deadly for competition. It's all nonsense. Your full contact competition styles like Muya Thai,Kyokushin ( other styles of karate),boxing,wrestling,Judo produce the best fighters. These styles involve stepping on the mat or into the ring with someone who is REALY trying to hurt you. Now that sounds like a good way to test your skills under pressure. How is that a bad thing for combat training ?
The IMA people say their art is not for competition. But I think its because they don't want to look foolish and beaten by people who take martial arts training seriously. They can't compete. Thats the key issue here. They have neither the mind set nor the conditioining.The fact is that competition breeds excellence and martial artists who train in competitive arts are always willing to put to the test what they preech. They don't try to hide behind excuses.
Now as for this business about eye strikes ? Ah man, its not the trump card people believe it is. First of all eye strikes/groin kicks are a two way street. BOTH fighters can use them. Secondly if you think you can outclass a conditioned fighter simply because you know a couple of these 'cute' tricks then your fooling yourself.
There...thats my rant. Sorry I went on and on but I just see red everytime these fatass TMA types put **** on competition styles. If competition is not for them. Thats okay. Fine. But they have no business putting down others when they cannot do better themselves.Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
6/11/2005 10:18pm, #7Originally Posted by HannibalI think it was two ninjas taped together, to make one GIANT NINJA!!!!
6/11/2005 10:21pm, #8
Hannibal, just go ahead and change your name to Captain Obvious. I don't see why you didn't register with it in the first place.
6/11/2005 10:29pm, #9
Of coarse it obvious !!! Thats the point ! SOmetimes people need the obvious pointed out to them. I still cannot believe with the amount of information there is in the martial arts world today how people cannot see the benefits of sparring and competition. Why they choose to 'bypass' all of that and hide behind the eye striking excuse is beyond me.Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
6/11/2005 10:32pm, #10
What is beyond you is original thought.