Punching with Power (my article submission)

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 6/11/2005 10:36pm

And it's momentum you want, not acceleration. A plane flying at you, but not speeding up or slowing down will STILL do an assload of damage, yes? So you want mass times velocity.

PL

**VikingPower** · Posted On: 6/11/2005 10:49pm

Regardless of how it's worded, they get the general idea. I don't think not changing it will be detrimental. F=ma makes enough sense for most people, so it works.

I haven't taken physics yet (won't till the fall semester, have to get through this bullshit algebra first) as I was never any good at math in high school so I'm just going with what I know here people.

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 6/11/2005 11:20pm

Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu

Regardless of how it's worded, they get the general idea. I don't think not changing it will be detrimental. F=ma makes enough sense for most people, so it works.

I haven't taken physics yet (won't till the fall semester, have to get through this bullshit algebra first) as I was never any good at math in high school so I'm just going with what I know here people.

No, it's not good enough since it's totally wrong.

It's like giving someone pain killers to swallow and saying that they work because the pills are round. TOTALLY wrong.

F = m x a means that if you apply a force F on a mass m, it will accelerate with acceleration a.

So if I apply 10 Newtons on an object which has a mass of 2 kg, it will accelerate at 5m/s^2.

PL

EDIT: Also, Algebra is the last of the "fun math". Beyond that is only pain and misery. And also, 90% of begining physics is algebra. If you don't know your algebra, you're fucked.

**Omar** · Posted On: 6/11/2005 11:46pm

Just stay away from the physics dude. I'm sure we've had enough threads on why using that equation or any of the variations is just a baaaaad idea. Regardless of the details, untill your arms detatch like Voltron and are propelled through spave as free objects the whole damn thing is just irrelevant. In punching, more mass = more power because there are more muscle fibers contracting to drive the punch. With the possible exception of a little fluid mechanics and some mechanical leverage and whatever, you just get nowhere with entry level physics. Whatever imaginary figure oyu are using for 'm' is just pulled out of your ass anyways.

I think is actually applies to the "drop step" aspect of punching because in THAT way you ARE actually propelling your whole bodymass through space to a target. But that will only illustrate how that particular part of oyur punching power is happening.

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Originally Posted by Shillelagh

Would you happen to know if anything like that is used in Xingyi?

I have no idea. I have pretty superficial knowledge of Xing Yi.

And I hate to ask you this, 'cause it's proabably an essay question, but could you elaborate a little on these "6 kinds of power" in Baji? I'm probably requesting alot, so if you don't care to answer, that's fine, but I'm simply too curious not to ask.

Thank you.

Yeah, it kind of is an "essay question" but I'll give you the short answer.

6 essential 'powers': ti, kua, chan, ding, bao, chan.

ti - lifting or raising.

kua - all that pelvic girdle stuff that fighters do. ie. the "hips" but a bit more encompasing.

chan - twisting or "spiral" energy. A really rudimentary example is something as simple as corkscrewing a punch. But it happens all over.

ding - doesn't translate well but kind of like when you stiff arm someone. Put your arm out in front of you and just walk towards the wall. The jolt your recieve when it hits the wall is 'ding'.

bao - 'empbracing' Kind of wrapping your self around an imaginary center. Think of the rounded back of a lot of boxers. Shoulder blades spread, shoulders dropped (adds reach), pelvis tucked forward a but.

tan - 'elasticity' or 'vibration'. A little springyness. Similar to the whip actually.

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 6/12/2005 12:15am

Omar, basically what it boils down to is, an object (in this case your fist), going faster makes the other guy hurt more. If your fist is more massive, it hurts him more. How you do this is the hard part.

PL

**Omar** · Posted On: 6/12/2005 3:58am

Well if your punch starts to approach the speed of light then your fist will become more massive. Alternately you could hold a roll of nickles in your fist when you punch. But for us empty fisted much slower than light speed punchers the mass of your fist pales in comparison to the added effect from things like a good structural connection to your legs.

Your just not hurling your fist though space. And IF you ARE really really refining that whiplike aspect and more or less just hurling your fists out there without the benifit of your arms, then how exactly does bodybuilding add mass to your fist? A little extra bone density? All those massive finger muscles? The human body just doesn't "eject" the fist out there. It's like thinking about a 2 car collisions, one where the engine is shut off and the car is in neutral and another where the car is kept in gear and the foot on the gass all the way untill and beyond impact. Punching is like number 2. The weight of the car DOES makei a difference but since our fists don't vary THAT much is is mostly the power under the hood that makes the difference. And I think acceleration does figure in.

But where this is all leading is to the fact that the old F = MA is so far removed from accuracy and trying to come up with a "usefull" equation is out of the reach of all of us except for those with degrees in both physics AND kenesiology, that it is best to just not bother with it.

Faster = better
Stronger = better
More "weight" behind it = better

That's about all you really need to know.

A lot of the esoteric punching power stuff I have mentioned from CMA probably doesn't even increase power so much as damage.

Decent link to clarify terms: http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Power.html

**Omar** · Posted On: 6/12/2005 3:59am

And in plain English:

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...rgy/u5l1e.html

**Lights Out** · Posted On: 6/12/2005 6:39am

Originally Posted by 9chambers

I actually saw a documentary on boxing on the History Channel (I think) the other day that claimed Dempsey soaked his hands in horse urine and soaked his face and hands in pickle juice to make them tougher.

I haven´t heard of this.

What I´ve heard is that Dempsaey soaked his handwraps in plaster in his fight with Jess Willard.

It was also rumored that he used the "Irish handwrap" wchich consisted in putting a small piede of iron oevr your knuckles and inside your hanwraps.

And yet another thing I´ve heard is that he used the "Cinese linimentum", which was a kinda liquid in which you soaked your handwraps, and once it got dry, they were pretty hard.

I don´t know if any of this is true. Cheating was a very common thing those days, and Dempsey might have cheated a little at some point, I don´t know.

Anyway, when he was about 60 or so, two tughs tryoed to stole his wallet and he beated the **** out of them, and prevent them from getting up until the police arrived. So imagine what could he do when he was in his prime.

**VikingPower** · Posted On: 6/12/2005 8:07am

I forgot who did the handwraps, but that wasn't Dempsey. Someone did soak their handwraps in plaster of Paris and cut their opponent to ribbons with it (to the point when there was actually a flap of skin hanging over his eyes), but the opponent still beat the **** out of him.

And for the record Bob Fitzsimmons had some comparatively small hands compared to say Lennox Lewis but he was one of the most savage bare-knuckle punchers in history (54-8-7 (47 ko's)) and held three world titles (middle, light heavy, and heavy) while weighing no more than around 160-170 pounds.

Using all that would say he couldn't hit as hard as Lennox, as his fists are much larger and he has more body mass:

But Lennox's record is virtually identical (41-2-1 with 32 KOs). Punching deals with how much weight you can put behind a punch and how fast you can do that while throwing one, which equals the force of your punch. I don't care what formula it is, as long as they get the gist of what I'm saying.

**Lights Out** · Posted On: 6/12/2005 8:43am

Well, Fitzsimons is one of those names important in what we may call "the development of modern boxing". Very important in the development ot fotwork and angle attack lines, if I´m correct.

He also has one kill.

Record.

EDIT: Just for the record, note that I don´t think Dempsey needed to cheat or cheated himself. It´s just that some "cheating" was a common thing those days, and there is a chance of Dempsey doing so. Still, due to his power, skill and braveness, I really doubt he felt he needed to cheat.

Still there is a little controversy in his fight with Firpo. Dempsey got knocked out out of the ring in round 1, and despite the rulse forbidding so, he got help to get into the ring, and was down (out of the ring) more than the preceptive ten count.