Thread: Phil claims FM 3-25.150 is crap
6/09/2005 9:41am, #1
Phil claims FM 3-25.150 is crap
Phil claims that the current Army hand to hand combat manual is crap because it contains BJJ, and writes that (snort snicker) the stilted karate-like Applegate unarmed stuff is better.
Apart from a brief section on the bladed boxing-style "fighter's stance," the next 114 pages depict pairs of men in camouflage BDUs (one or both of whom are wearing sneakers...?)
working through a seemingly endless succession of mounts, controls, guards, chokes, sweeps, and locks.
Setting aside one paragraph on the need for dominant body position, there is no discussion of the dangers of groundfighting (particularly in the hazardous physical environment of a battlefield, where armed multiple opponents are virtually guaranteed and smooth gymnasium floors are few and far between). There are no strategies or techniques offered for avoiding going to the ground and no discussion of the increased danger of being knifed (or bayoneted, if you will) while grappling.
I haven't exactly made an exhaustive study of military field manuals, but comparing this text to previous Army curricula reveals a disturbing contamination. Gone are the brutal, practical methods of Applegate and his WWII contemporaries, replaced by popular grappling sport methodology that turns the requirements of the battlefield on their collective ear. In an environment characterized -- by definition -- by armed, plural enemies often clad in body armor, committed grappling techniques are the least suited to the pragmatic needs of soldiers. Yet it is these methods that dominate the field manual, displacing appropriate techniques while flagrantly at odds with the context in which they are to be applied.
It's hard not to call this the worst combatives manual yet produced by the Army. The popularity of BJJ has taken its toll on the curriculum, leaving me wondering how many years it will persist in military doctrine.
I'm not knocking on Applegate; I think his stuff was good for the time. But, seriously, his stuff is hardly the end all be all of hand to hand combat. I remember reading this Applegate stick technique where he was saying that you could defeat your enemy by first scraping him horizontally across the belly with the end of your stick, and then ramming the end up under his jaw. I mean, that's sort of random, and by no means a guaranteed finisher.Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg
6/09/2005 10:10am, #2
The constant pressure and critique is causing Phil to withdraw from reality.
6/09/2005 10:14am, #3
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Within view of the flagpole...
I'm still waiting to see how they're going to get everyone certified by October... I haven't even seen any sort of order coming down from big army. Being the only guy that trains in my unit, I'm wondering where we'll get certified.
6/09/2005 10:29am, #4
The Eagle Federation dojo.
Do a search, noob, to get the joke. Welcome!
6/09/2005 10:30am, #5
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Being honest... most armed forces material on H2H WILL be ****.
Doesn't mean that the REASONS Phil thinks it is **** are actually correct though. He's still a knob.
6/09/2005 11:00am, #6
6/09/2005 11:07am, #7Originally Posted by BatRonin
6/09/2005 11:07am, #8
Setting aside one paragraph on the need for dominant body position, there is no discussion of the dangers of groundfighting (particularly in the hazardous physical environment of a battlefield, where armed multiple opponents are virtually guaranteed and smooth gymnasium floors are few and far between). There are no strategies or techniques offered for avoiding going to the ground and no discussion of the increased danger of being knifed (or bayoneted, if you will) while grappling."Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- San Angelo, TX
-My three year old trash talking to me
"Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
-The Honky Tonk Man
"If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
-My Father to me one day
"No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
6/09/2005 11:40am, #9
Phil's writing just makes me want to hurt him..... is this wrong?
In other news, was reading the manual the other day and it occured to me I could teach this thing without any problems what so ever ^_^ I should try and get a job training soldiers, now THAT would be a great use of my current work experience and passion for MA, woo-hoo!
Someting tells me I will never get the chance though.
6/09/2005 11:44am, #10Originally Posted by BatRonin