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  1. #1
    Wounded Ronin's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Phil claims FM 3-25.150 is crap

    Phil claims that the current Army hand to hand combat manual is crap because it contains BJJ, and writes that (snort snicker) the stilted karate-like Applegate unarmed stuff is better.

    http://www.themartialist.com/0604/criticalfm.htm

    Apart from a brief section on the bladed boxing-style "fighter's stance," the next 114 pages depict pairs of men in camouflage BDUs (one or both of whom are wearing sneakers...?)
    Ah hah hah, Phil dosen't even know wrestling shoes when he sees them. In spite of his gigantic paraphenilia fetish.

    working through a seemingly endless succession of mounts, controls, guards, chokes, sweeps, and locks.
    Yes, endless. Clearly. Not, you know...stripped down and simplified.


    Setting aside one paragraph on the need for dominant body position, there is no discussion of the dangers of groundfighting (particularly in the hazardous physical environment of a battlefield, where armed multiple opponents are virtually guaranteed and smooth gymnasium floors are few and far between). There are no strategies or techniques offered for avoiding going to the ground and no discussion of the increased danger of being knifed (or bayoneted, if you will) while grappling.
    Broken Warsaw Pact glass and Soviet lava?

    I haven't exactly made an exhaustive study of military field manuals, but comparing this text to previous Army curricula reveals a disturbing contamination. Gone are the brutal, practical methods of Applegate and his WWII contemporaries, replaced by popular grappling sport methodology that turns the requirements of the battlefield on their collective ear. In an environment characterized -- by definition -- by armed, plural enemies often clad in body armor, committed grappling techniques are the least suited to the pragmatic needs of soldiers. Yet it is these methods that dominate the field manual, displacing appropriate techniques while flagrantly at odds with the context in which they are to be applied.

    It's hard not to call this the worst combatives manual yet produced by the Army. The popularity of BJJ has taken its toll on the curriculum, leaving me wondering how many years it will persist in military doctrine.
    Poor Phil. Unable to deal with the presence of stripped down basic grappling in the current Army manual, he has to go and claim that Applegate's stuff was *clearly* better.

    I'm not knocking on Applegate; I think his stuff was good for the time. But, seriously, his stuff is hardly the end all be all of hand to hand combat. I remember reading this Applegate stick technique where he was saying that you could defeat your enemy by first scraping him horizontally across the belly with the end of your stick, and then ramming the end up under his jaw. I mean, that's sort of random, and by no means a guaranteed finisher.
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg

  2. #2
    Yrkoon9's Avatar
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    The constant pressure and critique is causing Phil to withdraw from reality.

  3. #3

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    I'm still waiting to see how they're going to get everyone certified by October... I haven't even seen any sort of order coming down from big army. Being the only guy that trains in my unit, I'm wondering where we'll get certified.

  4. #4
    Judah Maccabee's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Eagle Federation dojo.



    Do a search, noob, to get the joke. Welcome!

  5. #5

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    Being honest... most armed forces material on H2H WILL be ****.

    Doesn't mean that the REASONS Phil thinks it is **** are actually correct though. He's still a knob.

  6. #6

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    Body armour woudl actually be a reason to advocate grappling ala Kumi-uchi ( traditional grappling wearing samurai armour).

  7. #7
    Rubberduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    Body armour woudl actually be a reason to advocate grappling ala Kumi-uchi ( traditional grappling wearing samurai armour).
    It won´t protect against eye-gouges. When we arrested drunk soldiers, or broke up the fights in garrison, we used that technique a lot...not. Nope, we wrestled. Guess I need to call my friend in MP-school and stop the sparring (boxing/wrestling) and move to Phil-jutsu. :qleapfrog

  8. #8

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Setting aside one paragraph on the need for dominant body position, there is no discussion of the dangers of groundfighting (particularly in the hazardous physical environment of a battlefield, where armed multiple opponents are virtually guaranteed and smooth gymnasium floors are few and far between). There are no strategies or techniques offered for avoiding going to the ground and no discussion of the increased danger of being knifed (or bayoneted, if you will) while grappling.
    That would be the reason you grapple. To control the knife, it would be why you lock an arm, use a control, and on and on.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
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    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
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  9. #9
    Mostly, I just sit here. Mostly. hall of famestaff
    Stick's Avatar
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    Phil's writing just makes me want to hurt him..... is this wrong?

    In other news, was reading the manual the other day and it occured to me I could teach this thing without any problems what so ever ^_^ I should try and get a job training soldiers, now THAT would be a great use of my current work experience and passion for MA, woo-hoo!

    ....

    Someting tells me I will never get the chance though.

  10. #10
    Samfoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    Body armour woudl actually be a reason to advocate grappling ala Kumi-uchi ( traditional grappling wearing samurai armour).
    I was actually thinking that myself. Besides, ending a fight against an untrained (or poorly trained) grappler by submission is a lot faster than ending it with strikes. Furthermore with grappling and good control, I would think an opposing soldier would be less likely to be able to pull out a side arm and step back.

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