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  1. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 7:26am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only reason to "create" a system is too make money.
    To give yourself that coveted "creator of asswipe-jutsu" title.

    Every system out there ends up being "customised" to one extend ot another so...

    If I was to take all I know and start calling it "ronin-jutsu", I would be doing it for no other reason but to make myself look good.
    I could just as easily call it MMA or kick-boxing, or karate or Judo or jujutsu or any of the other " generic" names that have been around for so long.
  2. Leo is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 7:35am


     Style: MMA/SDF

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    These days ego is definitely a factor and a cause.. but I don't think it applies to everyone who makes a break from existing practices/schools/politics and looks for something new.

    The need to inflate ego and seek monetary gain from MA is a fairly recent trend brought about largely by the popularisation of the eastern MA's in the 70's. Before then there was relatively little money to be made.
  3. DubhGhaill is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 8:48am


     Style: MMA/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you need to assess new styles, and instructors in general, on a case by case basis. Try these two imaginary instructors for practice.

    Case 1: Erik Blade has been called by many a Martial Arts prodigy. He earned Black Belts in both Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido before the age of 17, has a University degree in Human Movement and has now founded his own style at the age of just 23. His style is Hwa Rang Jitsu.

    Case 2: Jim Doyle wrestled in high school, boxed at an amature level for three years in his twenties and has also played some Judo. He has no Black Belts or formal coaching qualifications, but served two tours of Vietnam and twenty years as a NYC police officer. He thinks the concept of "Martial Arts Styles" is a bit silly, but has written a short handbook on "Self Defense" and will happily show a few tricks to anyone who wants to learn (as long as they've been keeping their nose clean).

    Which one is more qualified?
    Last edited by DubhGhaill; 6/08/2005 8:51am at .
  4. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 8:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Neither.
  5. DubhGhaill is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 8:53am


     Style: MMA/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand that neither of them are well qualified to teach professionally, but I'd be interested in what the old cop had to say.
  6. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 8:54am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unless people grow an extra limb or through technology gain abilities they didn't previously have, there's no need for creating a new style. It's all about ego gratification and marketing.
  7. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 9:31am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hm, I´ll have to partly disagree. The techniques of empty hand fighting may have all been discovered by now, but the methods by which they are taught can vary immensely, and therefore the results can vary immensely.

    When people mention "new" striking style or a "new" grappling style, I do not automatically shake my head and blame human greed and human ego. It may be that the individual in question has found out a new method of teaching an old trick, and this method may more (or less) suitable for certain people.

    I´ll give you guys a real brazilian example: Morganti Jiujitsu (for the portuguese speakers here, just google it).

    Ricardo Morganti, as far as I remember, is a judo and KK blackbelt (higher than third dan in both, but I can´t remember which). He decided to create his own style, a mixed style including striking (under KK rules), throwing and groundfighting.

    To this end he studied a bit of wrestling, aikido, Wing Chun, and some other arts. He created a comprehensive syllabus and a teaching method (he also created some katas) in order to incorporate all the three fighting methods, so that the students would hopefully eb able to make the transition from one to the other.

    His method demands rigorous physical training, conditioning, and so forth. The sparring is hard and frequente - Morganti Jujutsu students spar every class (not always striking and not always all three methods together, but there will always be rolling and/or throwing by the end of the class, at least).

    He organized championships and so forth. His students compete internationally at events promoted by the sport jujitsu organization:

    http://www.sportjujitsu.com/isjamem.html

    All in all, this guy did a lot of good for brazilian martial arts. Both Ricardo and his senior students still research other martial arts, looking for points to improve in their style, which are later incorporated into the syllabus.

    Now, to be blunt, of course he wanted to make money out of all this, and he did. But overall it was a good idea for the MA people in general.
    Last edited by WingChun Lawyer; 6/08/2005 9:33am at .
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  8. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 9:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Morganti didn't invent a new style, he put his name to what he teaches, which is a combination of striking and grappling.

    There is a difference.
  9. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 9:38am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    Morganti didn't invent a new style, he put his name to what he teaches, which is a combination of striking and grappling.

    There is a difference.
    Well, sure, he did. But then what would you call a new style? Something claiming unknown/brand new/recently disclosed to the public fighting techniques?

    I mean, Morganti´s teaching method is his own, if his techniques are not. Mas Oyama did not exactly create anything new in the techniques department, right? But his teaching method was good enough to create great fighters. I´d say it is fair to say both people created their own styles.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  10. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 9:42am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the since that Kyokushin combined shotokan with Goju with MT with hard contact sparring, it was a "new" style, since no other system had done that.

    Nowadays...

    While I see your point, and I agree, I think its a stretch to say that Morganti's is a new style.

    But maybe its a question of arguing the finer details.
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