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  1. punchingdummy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2005 6:50pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TSK

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    Also, the Army is actually trying to take steps to increase the troops' ability as riflemen at the moment as well. For instance, new recruits are now required to learn to strip and care for an M16 or M4 much earlier in the program and from then on carry the rifle with them for most of the day (maybe all.) They load the rifles with blanks so that negligent discharges will be loud and obvious, then dare the recruits to carry these rifles safely. That's a HUGE improvement.
    (No, I don't know much about the military, but I know enough about guns. Forcing people to ingrain safe practices into their daily routine is a fantastic idea.)
    Those things are very good...but they are still not marksmanship.
  2. DubhGhaill is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2005 9:03pm


     Style: MMA/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For those who haven't seen it, the new US Army "Combatives" field manual is designated FM 3 25-150. It should be available here
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...y/fm/3-25-150/

    The older manual it replaced (FM 21-150) is also available free online.
    Last edited by DubhGhaill; 6/07/2005 9:05pm at .
  3. oldman_withers is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 8:30am


     Style: One-armed flailing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BatRonin
    If you have civilians training the military, why would you think that learning from the military would be "better" ?
    You'll notice I never said it would be better, only interesting if you could learn it without having to join the military like the MA's it's based on. Though, since they put the training manual online, I'm sure someone could easily recreate their program.
  4. GarageJudokaSS is offline

    U.S. Army

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    Within view of the flagpole...
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    Posted On:
    6/08/2005 1:47pm


     Style: BJJ, Kickboxing, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Haven't you guys ever watched G.I. Joe?

    We shoot at each other for a bit, then all of a sudden someone will yell "JOES!! Ground your weapons and engage in hand to hand combat!!!"

    As long as someone says it loud and clear, the enemy will drop their weapons, too, ending the weird light show, and we'll run in and punch each other.

    Works every time.

    Hey, whatever the benefits to the individual soldier, sounds to me like I'll have the justification to put in a request for TDY orders to cover the Rutten/Couture seminar...
  5. bad credit is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2005 6:53am


     Style: MMA, JKD philosophy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At least that online manual shows weapons too, like knives, sticks, bayonets, and shovels. However, as good and basic as all that groundfighting is, where's the dirty fighting? Shouldn't it have shown eye gouges and throat strikes? What about groin striking or biting? That can happen pretty easy in the guard. Speaking of the guard, look at how they show you to break it. That **** seriously pissed me off when I was taught it that way in Shooto. Put yourself in triangle choke to break guard? **** YOU.
  6. danno is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2005 9:53am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i think that this can only have a positive effect. i can't see how it would do any harm.

    haven't they often taught boxing in the army? even studied TKD?
  7. danno is offline
    danno's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2005 9:54am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh yeah, i found it pretty funny that i had a little trouble seeing what their limbs were doing in the online training manual cos of the camo...
  8. The_Ghost is offline
    The_Ghost's Avatar

    U.S. Army

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2005 10:59am

    supporting member
     Style: Kickboxing/Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    I think there are much better ways than putting them through 20 or 30 hrs. of MMA training. I would begin by attempting to raise the marksmanship skill of the average soldier to that of the average Marine.
    And I think the Marines would be vastly improved by attempting to raise the common sense of their soldiers to that of the stupidest Army Recruit....but we all can't be happy at once so we'll just have to wait around for magical little intelligence pills...or magic, whichever comes first.
    "did Phrost just call me a 'bitch'?"-Omega

    "The collective IQ of bullshido was reduced with the departure of Wastrel. It further dropped due to the retention of (Serious Harm)."
    - The all knowing Dochter

    "but like, it's possible to develop such a level of reflex that you can literally detect someones movements through sensitivity, and block without even thinking"-Apostol

    That's the amazing thing about Ninjas, for sneeky cocksuckers, they are all over the place, like dog **** on your shoe.-Ronin69
  9. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Florida
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2005 8:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost
    And I think the Marines would be vastly improved by attempting to raise the common sense of their soldiers to that of the stupidest Army Recruit....but we all can't be happy at once so we'll just have to wait around for magical little intelligence pills...or magic, whichever comes first.
    Last time I checked there were no soldiers in the USMC, only Marines.

    My comment regarding marksmanship was based on fact, whereas yours regarding common sense was based on stereotypes...inaccurate ones at that.

    The truth is that the average Marine has a higher ASVAB score than the average soldier, for whatever that's worth.

    No worries though, based on your post it would appear that you're right where you belong.
  10. leavittk is offline

    U.S. Army

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    Jan 2005
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    Arlington,VA
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    96

    Posted On:
    6/11/2005 1:33pm


     Style: Aikido/MACP/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    as usual some good comments and some not so good!

    There is no way that every soldier in the army will be trained in Modern Army Combatives by October.

    The Chief of Army is putting on big emphasis on Warrior Task Training, of which combatives is a part of.

    The program is not so much about building skills necessary to win a fight, but building/honing the character, spirit, and toughness necessary to have strong warriors that can succeed in battle.

    Our mantra is "the guy who wins the fight, is the guy whose buddy shows up first with a weapon."

    Certainly the basic ground fighting skills you when can be helpful, especially in MOUT environment, but that is not the main focus.

    Yes, we need to spend more time on marksmanship training, CQM/CQB..no one will argue with that. Those things are a huge part of what is important, and in a perfect world we would have all the time and resources we need to do that.

    Combatives training is inexpensive, and can be fit into almost any time period from 5 minutes to 2 hours.

    We are finding that some soldiers love it and do it all the time, others will only do it when they are told to....with many in between.

    One thing I like about it is the comraderie and team skills that are developed. You get a Sgt that is good at combatives and he gets respect from his troops.

    The physical conditioning, as most of you know, from rolling is outstanding too. I personally like to do "battlefocused" PT. Running and pushups are boring. I kinda stopped doing that, and I am healthier and score higher on my PT test doing combatives full time.

    I'm an aikido guy, and came over to the "darkside". I love it and think the program is awesome for what it is designed to do...build warriors.
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