Katy, TX: Jade Mountain Martial Arts - Sifu with BJJ Kiddie Belt

**Kinzei** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 11:21am

It looks like this scholl is not far from my instructors house. He has only lived in the area about 3 months, but I will ask him if he knows anything about it.

**Student** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 12:07pm

Originally Posted by Beneath Contempt

It seems pretty obvious to me. The Thomas guy is the school's grappling instructor. He's a bona fide BJJ guy, but not high ranked enough to give out BJJ belts, although he claims to be pretty competent having genuine rank himself and being a Judo 3rd Dan. The Jade mountain people want him to teach BJJ, and rather than invent a new style or something - they've simply invented a new belt colour - which I would presume is somewhere past white belt, and consistent with the fact that everything they do is green

No harm, no foul.

Of course, the obvious and non-controversial thing to have done would have been to have taught the same stuff but labelled it judo instead, but then I think the student numbers would have been much lower.

If he is not high enough to give out BJJ belts why not just keep training in BJJ until you are at the level where you can give them out - I think that is why they probably have that in there.

Also - why create a new color - I think that would get confusing when it comes time to compete in a tournament.

In the end, if they are developing functional skill and not misleading people I could care less (it just seems a little confusing).

**Student** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 2:31pm

Below is how the SBG does it - not sure if that is standard practice:

'In our Association any purple belt with one stripe or more can award up to four stripe white. This would indicate to me or another black belt when we see them that they are ready to test for the next belt. Any brown belt with one stripe or more can award up to blue. And belts above blue with no stripes will always need to be awarded by a black belt.'

http://www.straightblastgym.com/bjjtesting.htm

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 2:49pm

I thought that the rule of the thumb is that you can only award belts up to 1 rank lower than yours. Blue can't do anything, purple can give out up to blue, brown up to purple, and black of course any belt.

PL

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 3:05pm

This is a VERY grey area.

Technically you can promote 1 level under you. However, this is generally only done by black/brown belts. And with brown belts it is usually done with 'permission' or blessings. You know what I am saying? And USUALLY you won't see a brown promote anyone past blue.

It would be incredibly impetuous for me, as a purple belt, to promote someone to blue belt. If fact, it would be almost unheard of. My black belt would probably trip the **** out and brain me with a stopsign.

With the different factions there are no real 'rules' in BJJ, and because well...its brazilian... things are generally very informal. And the way things are done here in America isn't always the way things are done in Brazil. And the way things are done TODAY aren't always the way things were done in the OLD DAYS. What I am trying to say is there is no absolute rule regarding rankings other than you can't rank more than 1 level under you.

Just to put things in perspective : A blue belt can't rank anyone. A blue belt can't rank kids to green belt. A blue belt cannot 'make up' new belts in the system and award an adult a green belt.

**JKDChick** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 5:09pm

Originally Posted by Beneath Contempt

...The Jade mountain people want him to teach BJJ, and rather than invent a new style or something - they've simply invented a new belt colour - which I would presume is somewhere past white belt, and consistent with the fact that everything they do is green

No harm, no foul.

Harm and Foul. There IS NO GREEN BELT RANK FOR BJJ. He therefore is saying he holds NO RANK in something he strives to teach. He may actually be a great teacher and really know his ****; but he cannot claim to be instructing in BJJ.

Of course, the obvious and non-controversial thing to have done would have been to have taught the same stuff but labelled it judo instead, but then I think the student numbers would have been much lower.

That would be classic Bullshido/Mcdojo, then. Claiming to be something you are not to attract money.

He should have called it "Submission Wrestling" and worked his ass off finding a BJJ black belt to certify him as a blue.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 6:08pm

I also noted early but did not emphasize enough that I THINK I see a BJJ uniformed instructor triangling another instructor.....while wearing a black belt in those photos.

That is a problem.

We have a guy who teaches another form of martial art at another location in another school but takes privates with our instructor. From what I have heard he wears his black belt while teaching BJJ at his school. I am guessing he refers to it as 'grappling', but he is CLEARLY a white belt in BJJ.

I had heard about this ****. And it bothers me. Why? Because I don't wear my black belt when I am doing BJJ because I am not a black belt in BJJ. In fact, I wouldn't wear my black belt with a BJJ gi even at another school while not doing BJJ. It would be like...false representation.

Now the guy I am talking about was there Saturday. He was not wearing his black belt. But I have heard from others that he has at our school on occassion. My instructor obviously cuts him slack because he teaches at another school and is a private student.

Let's just say that **** wouldn't fly if he sparred with me. Wearing a white belt I would be normal. Wearing a black belt I would take it on as a public service to apply more pain than neccessary. I know...I am vain, shallow, weak, mean, and a bully. It just chaps my ass to see BJJ being misrepresented.

**DuckofDeath** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 6:23pm

Originally Posted by JKDChick

Harm and Foul. There IS NO GREEN BELT RANK FOR BJJ. He therefore is saying he holds NO RANK in something he strives to teach. He may actually be a great teacher and really know his ****; but he cannot claim to be instructing in BJJ.

Sifu is not listed as an instructor of BJJ, but rather as an instructor of Kenpo and Kung Fu; he simply lists a green belt in BJJ as one of his ranks. But if he did earn a green belt in BJJ when he was a kid, why wouldn't he have been promoted to blue sometime after he turned 16?

As for the the sensei who is listed as an instructor of BJJ, why is there absolutely no mention of his BJJ belt rank or the teacher under whom he earned it? If he is indeed a blue under Medeiros, but parted ways for some reason, why isn't he training with some Houston area BJJ BB who could also be called in to grant BJJ rank at Jade Mountain? If he's trained with Pedro Alberto and Eric Williams in the past, why isn't he hooked up with them now? Eric is a BB under Pedro and teaches at this school:

http://www.elite-martial-arts.com/

If you can't plainly and simply spit out what belt rank you hold in BJJ and under whom, you have no business teaching "BJJ".

**Strong Machine** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 6:24pm

There's a local TKD school up here where occasionaly the instructer(an older gentleman very well regarded in TKD) comes out in his "Carlson Gracie team" BJJ jacket.
He tells tales of his days in Brazil then demos moves and never actually spars.He does all this while wearing his black belt covered in stripes.
He is well aware his 200 students think he's a blackbelt in BJJ and lets them believe it.
Having trained with him, I guarentee he is a white belt.
This is not at all unusual and is a testament to the effectiveness and commitment it takes to get real BJJ belts.It's hard enough, these guys don't even try.They just put one on.
How many times have you seen in the credentials of the street lethal types like the haggannah guy "Attained bluebelt in BJJ".
I appreciate his honestly.
But he should add "Rather than stay a student for 10 more years decided to Quit BJJ and found his own system."

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 6/03/2005 6:26pm

A black belt should be able to take you on, so you have no reason to go easy. :)

My instructor promoted people to blue belt as a purple belt. The thing is, his teacher is back in Cali, so he doesn't really have much contact with him. Besides the 2 schools that are affiliated with eachother, there is only 1 other BJJ school I know of, taught by a black belt, but he has nothing to do with our school. Besides, the people who are blue belts win medals in the blue belt divisions, so I don't see a problem.

PL