The ATA masters

**MEGALEF** · Posted On: 5/30/2005 3:34pm

The ATA has a whole bunch of 'masters'. Has anyone here trained with any of them and does anyone know what merits they have?

I'm asking because I've attended a seminar with senior master Steven Westbrook, who seemed like a badass. Though to someone with only 3 months of TKD as MA experience at the time I was probably not very hard to impress. He taught the ATA Protech 'groundfighting' system, which he claimed to have developed in collaboration with the Gracie family.

My TKD-instructor has a level 1 certificate in this 'groundfighting' and his grappling skills are..

well..

(in my triangle) "Oh but I could gouge your eyes out from here".

**Poop Loops** · Posted On: 5/30/2005 3:50pm

Run, don't walk, away from ATA.

It's total ****.

PL

**Gringo Grande** · Posted On: 5/30/2005 4:07pm

Megalef,

The real power behind the ATA is one Chief Master William Clark. Bill Clark was a fully certified badass back in the 70's as a full contact karate guy...when open karate tournaments were not pussified by various protective gear. I'm certain if you do a google search, you will find all you need to concerning William Clark's credentials.

To his credit, Chief Master Clark embraced BJJ earlier than most TMA'ers and flew Rickson in to Florida to train his staff after the first several UFC's. To the best of my knowledge Chief Master Clark still flys out to CA and trains with Rickson on occasion and due to first-hand knowledge from a friend who is a head ATA school instructor, Chief Master Clark is still a bad ass himself despite being in his mid-50's.

With that being said, what Chief Master Clark may be most famous for is creating successful business systems for martial arts...what many of us would consider McDojo-ism. Besides his association with the ATA (those in the know claim he is the power behind the ATA) and his involvement with Mike Chat and the XMA. Chief Master Clark has for many years been one of the most sought after speakers concerning the successful building of a martial arts school/business. He commands quite impressive fees for his seminars in this regard and himself still owns outright or partially at least a dozen schools.

Although Chief Master Clark has a few instructors who are very, very competent fighters including at least one MMA fighter (maybe it is KB/MT) and the instructors he has imported from Argentina and South America. The majority of his instructors in my opinion could be handled by most semi-competent fighters with ease.

The ATA "groundfighting" system is a joke...if you can't get any real ground training, you could always try it...but you'll most likely pick up some bad habits.

Gringo Grande

**Gringo Grande** · Posted On: 5/30/2005 4:09pm

PS: Read the last sentence of this statement by Chief Master Clark:

Making $50,000 to $120,000
Master Bill Clark, from Jacksonville, Florida, started throwing kicks in 1968 and has evolved into one of the most successful school owners in the country. With 13 schools under his ownership, Clark has built a small empire around his taekwondo dojangs. According to this master instructor, being a long-time member of the American Taekwondo Association (ATA) is part and parcel of an underlining reason for his prosperity.
“We’re in a very large association. The ATA wouldn’t allow for a student to open up a school that would compete with their instructor,” says Clark. “They need the instructor’s permission to leave and start a school of their own. We have over twelve-hundred schools and clubs in the United States, and when you’re in a large organization that gives you some power.”
Clark, however, is very supportive of students who want to run a school of their own. In fact, he says an agreement between him and a prospective school owner can be consummated with a simple handshake, followed by a lot of hard work.
“If someone will agree to work with me for three years, I’ll shake their hand and give them my blessing if they want to leave and open up an ATA school somewhere in the United States. We can be partners in that endeavor or they can continue to work for me, and I have a very liberal pay system so they can make a lot of money.”
Clark says that his chief instructors make between $50,000 and $120,000 a year. He believes that a chief instructor in the martial arts should make as much money as he would in any other profession.
“A career in the martial arts is the best thing I’ve ever done, and I believe in giving anyone who wants the same an opportunity to do so,” he says. “Each of my schools has at least two full-time instructors and a part-time assistant instructor.”
Clark realizes that money is a powerful incentive and uses it as a tool to encourage his instructors to bring more people in the door and to motivate existing students.
“One of the incentives I use is that instructors are paid on the net profit of the school,” Clark explains. “I give them a testing bonus if they can get a certain number of students to test. They also make extra money for having high enrollments. Enrollments are, to me, the most important element of having a successful school. There are no great instructors at my school unless they are also great recruiters.”
To make sure his people are the best that they can be, Clark has an ongoing training program. Each Monday and Wednesday, every member of Clark’s staff must attend a meeting where they “crunch” numbers and do role-playing.
“Our role-playing includes teaching them how to use scripts and to develop a good rapport with potential students,” Clark says. “Our presentation comes word-for-word from a script. If you’ve ever seen a great movie where the actors seem so natural, it’s because they’ve gone over the script a million times. Our presentation is the same. My people must practice our pitch word-for-word until it comes naturally to them.”
Clark is a master of making big bucks in the martial arts, and his success hasn’t gone unnoticed by his peers. As the creator of a consulting business called Martial Arts Success Systems, Clark teaches others to do what he does.
“I don’t sell a package of crap like a lot of other people,” Clark states flatly. “I teach people how to run a school like I run mine, for maximum profit. Then I help them run it.”
According to Clark the biggest mistake school owners make is thinking that teaching has something to do with their success.
“What these people fail to realize is that recruiting is the number one element in making a school a success,” says Clark. “It takes a lot more work than the average person thinks it does.”

Gringo Grande

**patfromlogan** · Posted On: 5/30/2005 4:20pm

This is just heart warming... (http://www.martialinfo.com/Articles/...view.asp?i=202)

A Rags-to-Riches Tae Kwon Do Tale

How does a poor U.S. immigrant from Paraguay become a martial arts mogul with 12 schools and 2,500 students in just a dozen years? See how Florida's Sergio Von Schmeling rose from poverty to prosperity as a living example of the American Martial Arts Dream.

Like most of the four-million inhabitants of Paraguay, Von Schmeling's father was a farmer who grew only enough crops to feed his family of ten children. Von Schmeling remembers that they had no electricity and no running water.

Von Schmeling's first taekwon do instructor wasn't the best example of the tenants of the martial arts. "He sat at his desk drinking beer and smoking," he says. "And he regularly beat us up."

In 1988, Von Schmeling and his wife, Maria, sold all their possessions in Paraguay and moved with their two-year-old son, Hermann, to the U.S. They brought with them only what they could pack into a few suitcases. He then taught for Master Bill Clark in Jacksonville, Florida, for five years.

"[Life] should be a picture of joy as well as success. I am happy. I have been married for sixteen years and have four children -- that is joy and success."

One of Master Von Schmeling's biggest goals is to have 100 schools at the manageable size of 200 students each.

Right in the middle of the South American continent sits the poor nation of Paraguay. Its main exports are coffee, cotton, lumber and -- taekwondo. That's right, taekwondo. About a dozen years ago, Master Sergio Von Schmeling brought his successful martial arts teaching formula from Paraguay to the United States. Today he is one of, if not the most successful ATA (American Taekwondo Association) owners in the United States, with 12 schools and over 2,500 students.
But it was not an easy road for this immigrant who could only speak a few words of English when he arrived in Florida in 1989....

**Feryk** · Posted On: 5/30/2005 4:39pm

It IS possible to be McDojo and still teach effective MA. TSK is apparently one of these. If I were trying to make a lot of $$$ in MA, I'd be looking to do it without watering down my style.

Fortunately for me, I have a career.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 5/30/2005 9:47pm

Originally Posted by Gringo Grande

PS: Read the last sentence of this statement by Chief Master Clark:

Making $50,000 to $120,000
Master Bill Clark, from Jacksonville, Florida, started throwing kicks in 1968 and has evolved into one of the most successful school owners in the country. With 13 schools under his ownership, Clark has built a small empire around his taekwondo dojangs. According to this master instructor, being a long-time member of the American Taekwondo Association (ATA) is part and parcel of an underlining reason for his prosperity.
“We’re in a very large association. The ATA wouldn’t allow for a student to open up a school that would compete with their instructor,” says Clark. “They need the instructor’s permission to leave and start a school of their own. We have over twelve-hundred schools and clubs in the United States, and when you’re in a large organization that gives you some power.”
Clark, however, is very supportive of students who want to run a school of their own. In fact, he says an agreement between him and a prospective school owner can be consummated with a simple handshake, followed by a lot of hard work.
“If someone will agree to work with me for three years, I’ll shake their hand and give them my blessing if they want to leave and open up an ATA school somewhere in the United States. We can be partners in that endeavor or they can continue to work for me, and I have a very liberal pay system so they can make a lot of money.”
Clark says that his chief instructors make between $50,000 and $120,000 a year. He believes that a chief instructor in the martial arts should make as much money as he would in any other profession.
“A career in the martial arts is the best thing I’ve ever done, and I believe in giving anyone who wants the same an opportunity to do so,” he says. “Each of my schools has at least two full-time instructors and a part-time assistant instructor.”
Clark realizes that money is a powerful incentive and uses it as a tool to encourage his instructors to bring more people in the door and to motivate existing students.
“One of the incentives I use is that instructors are paid on the net profit of the school,” Clark explains. “I give them a testing bonus if they can get a certain number of students to test. They also make extra money for having high enrollments. Enrollments are, to me, the most important element of having a successful school. There are no great instructors at my school unless they are also great recruiters.”
To make sure his people are the best that they can be, Clark has an ongoing training program. Each Monday and Wednesday, every member of Clark’s staff must attend a meeting where they “crunch” numbers and do role-playing.
“Our role-playing includes teaching them how to use scripts and to develop a good rapport with potential students,” Clark says. “Our presentation comes word-for-word from a script. If you’ve ever seen a great movie where the actors seem so natural, it’s because they’ve gone over the script a million times. Our presentation is the same. My people must practice our pitch word-for-word until it comes naturally to them.”
Clark is a master of making big bucks in the martial arts, and his success hasn’t gone unnoticed by his peers. As the creator of a consulting business called Martial Arts Success Systems, Clark teaches others to do what he does.
“I don’t sell a package of crap like a lot of other people,” Clark states flatly. “I teach people how to run a school like I run mine, for maximum profit. Then I help them run it.”
According to Clark the biggest mistake school owners make is thinking that teaching has something to do with their success.
“What these people fail to realize is that recruiting is the number one element in making a school a success,” says Clark. “It takes a lot more work than the average person thinks it does.”

Gringo Grande

hey Gringo, do you know how they pitch their prospective students, and why they're so successful?

This is a nice example of the divergence of interests, I can understand why $, Clark places more emphasis on recruitment then teaching, and since he wants to make the bucks I won't expect him to do otherwise. However it would be in the interest of a prospective student to avoid his school and go some place in which teaching was viewed as more important then maximizing profit. What a student would want and what the instructor desires in this case is quite different.

**MEGALEF** · Posted On: 5/31/2005 2:50am

The ATA "groundfighting" system is a joke...if you can't get any real ground training, you could always try it...but you'll most likely pick up some bad habits.

Yes, I remember crossing the legs when taking the back and pronouncing Rickson with an R.

**Gringo Grande** · Posted On: 5/31/2005 6:42am

Samuel, do you feel this would be one of those things I might be better off PM you with? I don't know how "proprietary" a lot of that info is.

Gringo Grande