Posted On:5/28/2005 1:11pm
i can't stand the throw, and i would never try to use it against a larger person. there is a good chance you can mess up your back against a bigger guy.
i have never seen anybody who uses it on a regular basis either.
but if you like that throw, it could be used to throw somebody hard. i don't think it would drop anyone on their head, because most people will get their hands up.
U.S. Army (Reserve)
Posted On:5/28/2005 1:15pm
Style: Muay Thai
Good way to carry people, if you know how to get them up. As a throw? I think that it would work while grab-assing with your buddies, but I don't think it would be fight effective. I'll hold total judgement until I see Matt Hughs do it.
Sgt. Shenault: "They shoot-in'! They shoot-in'!"
Moi: *removes headphones* "So shoot back." *replaces headphones*
Hanging out with small groups of scared, well-armed young men without responsible adult supervision since 1999.
Posted On:5/28/2005 3:17pm
Style: BJJ, wrestling
The arm drag to firemans was my strongest takedown as a high school and collegiate wrestler. I have used it four times in actual fights, three times it worked well. That said, it's definitely a fallback technique and not something to try initially. If you do the move slowly or with your back straightened, or like Osiris said you try it right off the bat, you can be pancaked onto your back into crucifix position. Avoid this by keeping your shoulders rounded, a slight slouch goes a long way to prevent the aforementioned pancake. You must also execute this move with no hesitation and in good form (I know this is true of almost every move). This means lots of drilling before you ever attempt it in a match or a fight.
The great thing about the firemans throw is you can finish it in a gentle manner, bend at the hips and let your partner just roll off, or you can stay on one knee and throw your opponent skyward.
Fear and bullets.
Posted On:5/28/2005 3:19pm
Good 'ol kata guruma. Judo has the standard pick em up and drop em format, as wll as a non-lifting version:
Instead of lifting, sit back un your bubutt and drag them down over your shoulder.
Come to think of it...I'm gonna give it a shot next class....
And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".
--Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
Posted On:5/28/2005 3:22pm
A joke, Osiris; the idea seemed absurd to me in a fight context, thus the reference. The visual seemed appropriate.
Folkstyle wrestlers actually use a variation of this? (I know crap about folkstyle wrestling.) It seemed to me that there were a few other options available prior to such a toss, as you mentioned. The idea of a fireman's carry move seemed vaguely reminiscent of something one would see in professional wrestling, requiring cooperation from the partner. I have trouble picturing an attempt with an actively struggling person on top. Willing to concede the possibility, I had simply never seen it used.
Posted On:5/28/2005 3:25pm
Style: Judo & Sub Wrestling
Probably more effective "on the street" is the standing version in Judo, the kata garuma. It hurts a lot more. But the odds of somebody using it and executing the technique in that situation is probably slim to none.
EDIT: Scrapper beat me to it!!
Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that kickboxing is commonly known as fighting while grappling simply isn't. - Osiris
Posted On:5/28/2005 3:29pm
Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)
I've pulled it off in rolling as a takedown, but I've never been able to get a good position afterwards.
I'd imagine you could also use it on a smaller guy as a good way of humiliating him without hurting him. Pick him up, spin him around a few dozen times until he's dizzy and then drop him on his ass and have a good laugh.
Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...
Posted On:5/28/2005 3:56pm
Style: Kyokushin Karate
I've used it twice in fights (once when I was in the Corps and once as a loss prevention specialist), but as said before, it's not something you'd try to go for initially. The first time was my buddy, he was drunk and tossing blows so I needed to get his ass out of the bar before the JPs came. He was swinging wild up top, so I snagged him up and ran him outside and held him down till he calmed down. That one went off pretty well, 2nd time wasn't as smooth. The guy tried holding on to a railing so when I hoisted him up he tugged hard, knocked us both off balance, and he ate the curb and injured his wrist, and I ended up almost falling backwards into the street.
A guy I knew was real good at pulling these off, but he was top-notch, a lot better than a lot of the guys you see around. He liked getting them up on his shoulders and then do a sort of yoko-nagare so he'd slam them on their upper back. Hard to explain and it looked crazy, but it'd knock the wind out of you big time.
SON OF ODIN
My Punching with Power article
My guns bigger than Scrapper's!
Posted On:5/28/2005 5:35pm
If you are a smaller guy and wish to take down a lager one this is a MUST HAVE in your arsenal!!! If you doubt this you are an idiot and go hang yourself. I have used this in a real altercation and its more difficult for a 6' guy doing it than a guys who is 5'5" doing it. You are enlightened, go play!
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
Posted On:5/28/2005 6:04pm
You don't see Kata Guruma in the Nage no Kata Style ( Standing up ) very often in fights.
Examples which come to mind was one of Mark Muizingers throws at the Sydney olympics, if my memory serves me right.
The seated Kata Guruma ( or Laats' style, named after the Belgian Judo player who 'invented' this technique) is much more commonly used.
I reckon it is a good postion to follow into groundwork when done properly.
For self-defense : Wouldn't use the seated one, the standing one is important to be familiar with.
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