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  1. Dan Anderson is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jul 2007
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    Bridal Veil, OR
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2009 6:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MA-80 Arnis & USA Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Patrick,

    I didn't leave Kong Soo. It left me. I began karate when I was 14 years old. When I was 16 the chief instructor changed the curriculumn from Kongsu (how we spelled it) over to an American system he devised with a Chinese name, Wu Ying Mun. He had studied some modified Wing Chun from Taky Kimura for about 6 months back in the mid 1960s and had been working on a change since that time. The highest I got was brown belt in Kongsu. I stayed with him until 1974 and then got kicked out of the organization in 1977 (loooooong story).

    I practice American Freestyle Karate and wrote a book on it back in 1980. You may have seen it and if you haven't, just Google it and you'll find it. I'm in agreement re Taekwondo, or at least Olympic style (WTF). The TKD of the mid-1960s, especially what was taught to the military was nothing to scoff at. The Viet Cong were terrified of the ROK Tigers. That I got from my first instructor, Loren Christensen, who was stationed in Saigon as a Military Policeman.

    I find the whole history of the Korean arts rather fascinating and it's great that someof the true history is coming to light.

    Personal question: what is your rank in Kong Soo Do?

    Yours,
    Dan Anderson
  2. Patrick Baas is offline

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    Aug 2009
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    Posted On:
    11/06/2009 7:00am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kong Soo Do

    Hi Dan,

    Yes, you deffinitly got a point there. I fully agree. Taekwondo, as it has been practised in the '60's and even in the '70's and even a little of the '80's was a great and very powerfull fightingsystem. I also hold a 4th dan-degree in WTF Taekwondo. My instructor, master Louis Pardoel (9th dan WTF) has also trained with the Korean master Hur Heung Taek, who also trained the special forces in Vietnam. It is so pitty that Taekwondo isn't even a shadow anymore of what it used to be. Therefore we choose for Kong Soo Do as the ancestor of what once was. In the mean while I hold a 5th dan in Kong Soo Do. In May 2010 I am leaving for Okinawa and I hope to graduate for my 6th dan-degree when I get examined by master Tetsuhiro Hokama. I saw your books and website on the internet. Great work! I am an author too. I wrote two books that were published (one called 'Kong Soo Do, the modern approach of Korean Karate'). It is written in Dutch but will be translated some day. You can see them at my website and arround the internet. At the moment I am working on 3 new books again. Just placing my inspiration at the right time in the right book ;-)

    At the moment a Scotisch Kong Soo Do club joined us and a Portugese club will probable too in a short time. It is great to see Kong Soo Do revive!

    Best regards,
    Patrick Baas
    www.samlungdojang.nl
  3. Dan Anderson is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/06/2009 1:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MA-80 Arnis & USA Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Patrick,

    Thanks for all the data. The reason I asked you rank is that my own Kongsu is somewhat of an incomplete cycle of action. I had learned the Pyung An forms, Bassai and Chulgi, advanced as far as Brown Belt but never got to Black. If I got a chance to test I would like to complete to first Dan Black. It's too bad you are in Europe. Hmmm.

    Yours,
    Dan Anderson

    PS - What is your website?
  4. dwkfym is offline
    dwkfym's Avatar

    Yours truly

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    Tampa Bay Area
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    2,017

    Posted On:
    11/08/2009 9:26pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     PDS Rifles Style: Univ. Florida Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gong soo do is also used often to just describe any Karate.
    I was in Korea visiting home during the summer "fighter in the wind" came out (K-movie about oyama) and I noticed everyone and their mothers started using words like gongsudo and gukjin.
    Kuk Jin Karate is korean way of reading "Kyokushin"
  5. Patrick Baas is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2009 3:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh yeah deffinitly. Kong Soo Do doesn't mean anything else but just karate. No different style but just any style. I did not know about Kuk Jin (Kyokushin), nice to know, but I did know about 'Song Do Kan' Kong Soo Do (Shotokan Karate).
  6. X_plosion is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2009 4:02am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FWIW,

    How the Original Kwans called their Karate

    Chung Do Kwan - Tang Soo Do
    Song Moo Kwan - Tang Soo Do
    Yeon Moo Kwan/ Ji Do Kwan - Kong Soo Do
    Chang Moo Kwan - Kwon Bup

    The names later got used interchangeably as the kwans attempted several times to unite themselves into one organization. Then, the government declared the use of the Tae Kwon Do name, and most kwans went along with the government's unification move.

    Hwang Kee's Moo Duk Kwan group refused to join. They called their art Tang Soo Do, and later, Soo Bahk Do. Schools with Moo Duk Kwan lineage but no longer affiliated with them still call their art Tang Soo Do. The Moo Duk Kwan Group that cooperated with the Korean government endorses Tae Kwon Do of the WTF.
    Last edited by X_plosion; 11/09/2009 4:07am at .
  7. Patrick Baas is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2009 5:07am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes indeed, but this information wasn't new to me. Anyway, when Lee Nam Suk (Song Do Kan Kong Soo Do = Shotokan Karate) en Byung In Yoong (Kwon Bup = Kempo) decided to coorporate, Byung In Yoong dissapeared in World War II. In fact we can say that combining Kempo and Karate we can speak in terms of 'Kempo Karate' wich is very often used. After Byung In Yoong became a MIA, Lee Nam Suk changed it in Chang Moo Kwan, wich later indeed changed by the gouvernement into Taekwondo. To bad...! I still prefer to use the name Kempo Karate or 'Kwon Bup' Kong Soo Do because the original concept was all about true selfdefence, moral values and honor. Modern sports did not have (just my opinion) a good effect on this. Plastic trofees, showballet, buying high degrees and ego seemed to became of more importance to many. It's a pitty.
  8. X_plosion is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2009 11:52am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Baas View Post
    Yes indeed, but this information wasn't new to me. Anyway, when Lee Nam Suk (Song Do Kan Kong Soo Do = Shotokan Karate) en Byung In Yoong (Kwon Bup = Kempo) decided to coorporate, Byung In Yoong dissapeared in World War II. In fact we can say that combining Kempo and Karate we can speak in terms of 'Kempo Karate' wich is very often used. After Byung In Yoong became a MIA, Lee Nam Suk changed it in Chang Moo Kwan, wich later indeed changed by the gouvernement into Taekwondo. To bad...! I still prefer to use the name Kempo Karate or 'Kwon Bup' Kong Soo Do because the original concept was all about true selfdefence, moral values and honor. Modern sports did not have (just my opinion) a good effect on this. Plastic trofees, showballet, buying high degrees and ego seemed to became of more importance to many. It's a pitty.
    Right you are.

    Just a small point of clarification, Yun Byung In went missing during the Korean War. It became recently known in South Korea and the West that Yun was in North Korea when the Korean Civil War broke out, and he was never able to return to the south.

    The Tae Kwon Do teacher Kim Soo has the story on his site.

    Anyway, glad to know you are at work preserving the Gong Soo Do teaching methods as passed down to your lineage. Best wishes.
  9. Dan Anderson is offline

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    Bridal Veil, OR
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2009 12:53pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MA-80 Arnis & USA Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good historical points being made here. The Kongsu I was affilitated with was with the Yan Mu Kwan. A medical student, Moon Yo Woo, began a branch of it in about 1958 in Portland, Oregon. he left portland after he graduated and Bruce Terrill was the head of the group until he changed the style (he'd had some training with Taky Kimura in the middle 1960's which really turned him around).

    Yours,
    Dan Anderson
  10. Dan Anderson is offline

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    Bridal Veil, OR
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    Posted On:
    12/10/2009 6:32pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MA-80 Arnis & USA Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just put up a video of me doing some forms I learned ~40 years ago. These are from Kongsu, a pre-taekwondo style taught in Korea prior to unification of the kwans. Not so bad for an old buzzard...except for Sipsu (my worst kata). Enjoy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA1Lrk--IN4

    Yours,
    Dan Anderson
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