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  1. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 12:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I donít think the argument of specificity really applies to somebody training for MMA.

    I mean I canít really spend twenty hours a week doing full contact sparring. So I roll without strikes, and hit a bag that doesnít hit me back. Neither of which are my sport... but their as close to it as it comes without having serious damage inflicted on me that might impede my training.

    I might spend an hour a week doing heavy bag conditioning, and up to eight hours rolling. The way I train, any more than that and I would be too bruised and battered to continue with other aspects of my training. So that leaves 11 hours for me to spend on other somewhat less destructive physical activities... ST, hiking, swimming, dancing and now yoga.

    Sweet fancy science, what the hell have you been doing?? These are not flexibility injuries.
    I know that tendon and muscle strength was involved in the injuries... But strength and flexibility go hand in hand. I would venture that all my injuries happened from a lack of strength and flexibility coupled with overtraining.

    What if that "super intense weight session" was capable of replacing everything else you do, leaving you nothing but MA to train?
    Frankly, I donít enjoy lifting weights nearly as much as I do all my other methods of exercise, I look at it more as a necessary pain in the ass. But other than muscular strength and flexibility, the most important result of my collection of other assorted activities is to increase my cardiovascular ďgas tankĒ. If I had just a weekly intense session of weights coupled with all the MA my body can handle, I would still be left with around ten hours of additional un-used training time per week. So what should I do with that time other than sitting on my ass?
    Last edited by BSDaemon; 5/04/2005 5:52pm at .
  2. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 12:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bud Shi Dist
    I donít think the argument of specificity really applies to somebody training for MMA.
    To become a better grappler, you must grapple.
    To become a better striker, you must practise striking.
    To increase your endurance in sparring, you must spar more.

    How is that ( specificity) NOT applicable?
  3. Feryk is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 1:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yoda KNOWS things, man...listen to the green machine.
  4. celticdragon03 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 1:22pm


     Style: Shaolin Kung-fu, FMA, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yoga is awesome guys. It not only safely and greatly increases flexibility, but it stregthens inner muscles. Strength training usually targets certain muscle groups, while after a good yoga class your body feels strong everywhere. Yoga coupled with strength training will make all the difference.


    I believe that all martial artists should try at least a few yoga classes, just to try it. I mean if you don't think it is doing anything for you by then, then it is not for you, but it is certainly worth a try. In my experience, Hatha yoga is if you want a more relaxing work out but Ashtanga is faster paced and you move more swiftly through poses. Usually in Ashtanga you get a better workout.

    Also, like someone else mentioned, make sure it doesn't teach McYoga, but it gives you a serious work out and the instructor knows what they are talking about. :thumbsup:
  5. Mediocrates is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 2:18pm


     Style: Fabio Santos BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I donít think the argument of specificity really applies to somebody training for MMA.
    Specificity isn't an argument - it's an unavoidable characteristic of skill development.

    Frankly, I donít enjoy lifting weights nearly as much as I do all my other methods of exercise, I look at it more as a necessary pain in the ass.
    I don't enjoy strength training at all. This is irrelevant, however. Legitimate exercise (not the vague nametag thrown on everything that requires a pulse) is not entertainment.

    But other than muscular strength and flexibility, the most important result of my collection of other assorted activities is to increase my cardiovascular "gas tank".
    What does that "increase" consist of? And how do you know?

    If I had just a weekly intense session of weights coupled with all the MA my body can handle, I would still be left with around ten hours of additional un-used training time per week. So what should I do with that time other than sitting on my ass?
    Fly a kite, finger paint, watch a movie...does it matter? Why do you feel you HAVE to be doing something else? Not that I'm saying everybody only needs to strength train once per week, but if minimal training for general fitness purposes brings about desired improvements, what's the problem?
  6. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 3:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    if minimal training for general fitness purposes brings about desired improvements, what's the problem?
    I'm not going for minimal training... I'm trying to maximize my training without crossing the line into overtraining. I'm getting very excelent results.

    Have you at least tried Yoga from a good instructor?
  7. Mediocrates is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 4:01pm


     Style: Fabio Santos BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not going for minimal training... I'm trying to maximize my training without crossing the line into overtraining. I'm getting very excelent results.
    Let me clarify: if less training time for general fitness purposes brings about desired improvements, what's the problem?

    How are you measuring your results?

    Have you at least tried Yoga from a good instructor?
    I'm not judging the value of what yoga provides. I'm attempting to dispel subjective evaluation (often accompanied by pseudo-science) of what it DOES provide. This is a problem with any activity that people do: lack of objective analysis.
  8. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 7:29pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is that a no?

    Legitimate exercise (not the vague nametag thrown on everything that requires a pulse) is not entertainment.
    It doesnít have to be that way... There are plenty of physical activities that are fun in addition to being ďlegitimate exerciseĒ. Grappling, striking, hiking, swimming, dancing, yoga are all extremely entertaining in addition to giving me a venue to push my endurance limits.
    What does that "increase" consist of? And how do you know?
    Itís a complex combination of metabolic muscular and cardiovascular fitness. I canít quantify it scientifically for you. I just know based on my improving ability to relentlessly keep working.
    Fly a kite, finger paint, watch a movie...does it matter? Why do you feel you HAVE to be doing something else? Not that I'm saying everybody only needs to strength train once per week, but if minimal training for general fitness purposes brings about desired improvements, what's the problem?
    The problem I have with your advice is that you seem to advocate being sedentary rather than keeping your body constantly active. My goals have nothing to do with ďgeneral fitnessĒ... Iím training to fight competitively. Iíve gone from overweight to average and now am starting to become athletic. Iíve done this with a **** load of hard work. The harder I can work safely the faster I progress. If thereís some magical shortcut to avoid all this activity I donít want any part of it... I enjoy staying active.
    I'm not judging the value of what yoga provides. I'm attempting to dispel subjective evaluation (often accompanied by pseudo-science) of what it DOES provide. This is a problem with any activity that people do: lack of objective analysis.
    The chicks are hot, both qualitatively and quantitatively. :razz:

    Iím not really trying to pass judgment on Yoga, having had only two lessons from one instructor Iím in no position to do that. I think judging Yoga as good or bad is the same as trying to judge Martial Arts in one fell swoop. It's oversimplification... you have to look at the style and the instructor to really assess value.

    What I am doing is citing multiple champions I consider to be role models who are also committed to Yoga. They donít have a shred of science to back up their beliefs... but that doesnít mean the examples they set arenít worth following.
  9. Mediocrates is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2005 10:41am


     Style: Fabio Santos BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is that a no?
    That's a "not anytime recently."

    It doesnít have to be that way... There are plenty of physical activities that are fun in addition to being "legitimate exercise". Grappling, striking, hiking, swimming, dancing, yoga are all extremely entertaining in addition to giving me a venue to push my endurance limits.
    This is exactly the kind of equivocation to which I was referring. See if you can come up with a definition for exercise - no need to start that dissection publicly, as this is not the place.

    Itís a complex combination of metabolic muscular and cardiovascular fitness. I canít quantify it scientifically for you. I just know based on my improving ability to relentlessly keep working.
    Relentlessly keep working doing what? How is it you have determined that your performance is due to improvement in those factors and not in others? Or to what degree in one of those factors versus another? I'm not expecting you to answer this here and now, just think about how you are making these determinations.

    The problem I have with your advice is that you seem to advocate being sedentary rather than keeping your body constantly active. My goals have nothing to do with "general fitness"... Iím training to fight competitively.
    Improvements in muscular strength, muscular endurance, cardiovascular ability, flexibility, and body composition (the 5 elements of general fitness) are completely unrelated to your goals? I believe you've stated several times that your activity choice outside of MA training is specifically for this purpose. I'm not suggesting people sit around doing nothing. I'm saying one should pick and design general fitness training such that the minimum amount of time is required to achieve desired results. The "leftover" time can be used for whatever personal desires apply...whether it be spending time with the family or going kayaking. The contrast is between exercise (which is entirely objective) and recreation (which is entirely subjective).

    I think judging Yoga as good or bad is the same as trying to judge Martial Arts in one fell swoop. It's oversimplification.. . you have to look at the style and the instructor to really assess value.
    This is a bit skewed - MA is done for the purpose of learning to perform and apply MA technique. You aren't doing yoga for the purpose of learning to perform and apply yoga technique (unless you do competitive yoga). By having a background in physics and physiology, it is very easy to analyze ANY human movement in terms of the mechanical and metabolic aspects. There's no judgment of good/bad in this process at all - it is purely descriptive.

    What I am doing is citing multiple champions I consider to be role models who are also committed to Yoga. They donít have a shred of science to back up their beliefs... but that doesnít mean the examples they set arenít worth following.
    And all I'm saying about this is that you don't follow EVERYTHING these champions do, so you must be making some judgments. Why pick certain aspects and how do you know which ones to pick (rhetorical)?
  10. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2005 10:49am

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Specificity would slap you in the face and ask...when do you ever fight with inner tubes hooked to your limbs?
    I dunno what he's talking about. I use SPRI rubber resistance products and 32oz weighted gloves from Everlast. I see it akin to putting a "donut" on a baseball bat and mimicking the movements of competition with resistance, so that when the resistance is removed, the natural speed and power is greater.
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