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  1. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2005 7:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mediocrates
    Rickson Gracie is amazingly well-versed in the subject of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I don't know that he has even remotely similar credibility in the subject of physiology
    Rickson has some very interesting philosophies on strength training... He uses a theraband for his most ST, and shuns metal weights. Iím sure the experienced weight lifters here would eviscerate Rickson for those beliefs... so Iíll just his methods with a grain of salt, as I do all advice.

    I donít want yoga to interfere with either ST or BJJ. But it has some other things I like too.... meditation and an abundance of very fine women. Yoga will bring balance to the veritable sausage fest that is my grappling and free weight training.

    My knowledge of physiology is limited compared to the lifters here. However I know that like weights, form is very important in yoga or you will risk injury. At my first yoga lesson while in the downward/upward dog positions (on all fours) I allowed my wrists to bend back too much under my weight rather than using strength to keep them bent at just a slight angle. This managed aggravate a persistent injury in my left wrist, where a stretched tendon allows the joint to fall out of place. But if I had used proper form my wrists would have been getting an incredible isometric workout, and I wouldnít have hyper extended the joint. This is just an example of where yoga, if done properly, does not necessarily seek to push to expand the limits of ROM, but instead uses your muscles to hold your joints together in correct position under large forces.

    For me in BJJ, the more flexible I am; the more possibilities are available to me. The more I can be technical instead of muscling my way through the motions. It means I need to create less space to escape, it means Iím harder to tap.

    And this is coming from a guy who has tapped from having his hand pressed against his chest causing a reverse arm bar. This is coming from somebody who has pulled their groin from holding a closed guard. Also I sprained both big toes as they were hyper extended back from a big wrestler muscling past my guard.

    I didnít get serious about ST and join a gym until a month ago. My level of knowledge in it is beginner/intermediate. Iím not the type that will pile insane amounts of weight on to stroke my ego. I do ďcardioĒ stuff like the elliptical and hiking up mountains. But Iím pushing the limits of overtraining now, hitting the gym 2-3 times a week and BJJ 3-4 times per week. I wonít bore you with more personal details of my training.... itís all in my log... Its just that I canít have a super intense weight session because it might mean throwing off other aspects of my training.

    So Iíve really run the gamut of injuries... Iíve just come to live with them. But now I realize I need to strengthen to reduce my susceptibility to injury. I think yoga will help if I do it with good form. As far as Yoga vs. ST, and which will be more ďefficientĒ, I think you would really have to be an expert in both pursuits to make such a judgment. But if anyone had such experience... would they really condemn either one of the activities?
  2. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2005 7:32pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    AthGirl's also the one who said:

    There is nothing that yoga will do, for the most part, that a good strength training program won't do quicker and more efficiently.
    And I've got to say, I've never seen someone been able to almost lick their own back after 10 years of weight training. Yoga's for flexibility and bending yourself in weird postures, and very few ST exercises are gonna help you do that.
  3. Jolly_Roger is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2005 7:45pm


     Style: Pimpin/Tango-thanks Xango

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Besides, Yoga has incredible advantages in both respiration and stamina techniques. And your circulation will improve dramatically, even just doing the sunīs salute everyday.
    What kind of Yoga would you do?
    Ashtanga is the most "strong" type around, but Iīd recommend some Hatha for starting, or Raja (my favorite, but very rare).
    Canuckyokushin:

    These women can do back flips right over my head and still land on there feet .GRrrrrrrr!

    feedback:

    THAT'S NOTHING, I USED TO KNOW SOME 12 YEAR-OLDS WHO COULD FIT INSIDE A SUITCASE AND STAY ALIVE FOR 7 OR WAS IT 6 HOURS
  4. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2005 8:24pm

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     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not sure what kind of Yoga it is... I'll ask the instructor when I go tonight. I'm sure I could find every form of yoga somewhere in this town if I started yoga-dojo-hopping.

    Personally I'm not going to be happy about my flexibility until I can pull off gogoplatas with ease. I also want to be able to comfortably have my knees on my chest with my heels on my butt and my back on the ground for sweeps from spider guard or elbow knee escape.
  5. Mediocrates is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2005 11:22am


     Style: Fabio Santos BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rickson has some very interesting philosophies on strength training... He uses a theraband for his most ST, and shuns metal weights. Iím sure the experienced weight lifters here would eviscerate Rickson for those beliefs... so Iíll just his methods with a grain of salt, as I do all advice.
    I wouldn't blast him for it...I'd just make him explain why he holds such beliefs.

    This is just an example of where yoga, if done properly, does not necessarily seek to push to expand the limits of ROM, but instead uses your muscles to hold your joints together in correct position under large forces.
    That sounds like you are attempting to gain strength via yoga. I would suggest evaluating how effective and efficient it is at achieving that end.

    And this is coming from a guy who has tapped from having his hand pressed against his chest causing a reverse arm bar. This is coming from somebody who has pulled their groin from holding a closed guard. Also I sprained both big toes as they were hyper extended back from a big wrestler muscling past my guard.
    Sweet fancy science, what the hell have you been doing?? These are not flexibility injuries.

    I do "cardio" stuff like the elliptical and hiking up mountains. But Iím pushing the limits of overtraining now, hitting the gym 2-3 times a week and BJJ 3-4 times per week. I wonít bore you with more personal details of my training.... itís all in my log... Its just that I canít have a super intense weight session because it might mean throwing off other aspects of my training.
    What if that "super intense weight session" was capable of replacing everything else you do, leaving you nothing but MA to train?

    As far as Yoga vs. ST, and which will be more "efficient", I think you would really have to be an expert in both pursuits to make such a judgment. But if anyone had such experience... would they really condemn either one of the activities?
    One does not need to be an expert in either. The efficiency and effectiveness of a given activity is evaluated through objective criteria, such as muscle groups involved, range of motion, and degree of inroad. I'm not calling yoga useless, I'm just identifying the nature of the activity.
  6. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2005 11:30am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yoga = increase in flexabilty
    ST = increase in strength

    I don't see the debate or even the comparison.

    Sure you can get SOME flexablity from ST, but NOTHING compared to yoga.
    Sure you can get SOME strength from yoga, but nothing compared to ST with weights.

    Silly kids.
  7. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2005 2:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did yoga before I got involved in MA (childhood ma does not count). I did experience strength gains, particularly in my back. It was not comparable to the strength gains I had achieved through weights. However, I think yoga may be able to work some of those fringe muscles, or those which may not be worked with your typical exercises with weights. This is just from my observation that if you take a person who has strength trained for a period of time, and you put them in a horse stance for example, they really do not have much of an advantage over all the other people who have never stood in a horse stance. So there must be something at work there.

    And since I am on this topic, I do not believe that strength training with weights had helped my striking power in a significant way.
    ďWe are surrounded by warships and donít have time to talk. Please pray for us.Ē ó One Somali Pirate.
  8. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2005 2:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    I did yoga before I got involved in MA (childhood ma does not count). I did experience strength gains, particularly in my back. It was not comparable to the strength gains I had achieved through weights. However, I think yoga may be able to work some of those fringe muscles, or those which may not be worked with your typical exercises with weights. This is just from my observation that if you take a person who has strength trained for a period of time, and you put them in a horse stance for example, they really do not have much of an advantage over all the other people who have never stood in a horse stance. So there must be something at work there.

    And since I am on this topic, I do not believe that strength training with weights had helped my striking power in a significant way.
    :crybaby2:
  9. Macistani is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 6:08am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yoga will help in the following ways (assuming you get a physical yoga class and not a hippie-laden feel-the-love class)

    1) Flexibility, but associated weird muscle strength that comes from getting into weird postures. Can't explain it, but you'll end up using muscles differently or different muscles than in normal weight training. You won't get bigger or obviously stronger, but it'll be easier to move your body. (does that make any sense or do I sound like a crazy person?)

    2) Chicks. There are lots of nice looking chicks in yoga classes that are very flexible. That alone is reason enough to take yoga.
  10. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2005 7:51am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Macistani

    1) Flexibility, but associated weird muscle strength that comes from getting into weird postures. Can't explain it, but you'll end up using muscles differently or different muscles than in normal weight training. You won't get bigger or obviously stronger, but it'll be easier to move your body. (does that make any sense or do I sound like a crazy person?)
    That's what I was saying, but I ade Ronin cry.

    I hate it when he cries. :911flag:
    ďWe are surrounded by warships and donít have time to talk. Please pray for us.Ē ó One Somali Pirate.
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