Bujinkan Sigh :-(

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 4/26/2005 11:33pm

I feel for you in more ways than you can imagine. It sucks being the lone voice of reason. That sport vs MMA argument is huge in TMA take a look at KFO. What is funny is you are deemed a traitor if you believe in MMA training. The funny thing is no TMAs will ever tell the stories of those guys getting there asses kicked in "The Street." How many boxers do you hear about getting beat up in the street. I can't name one. How mant TMA do you hear about getting beat up in the street. Many.

See I had the same wake up call. I only watched a BJJ class. All I could think was how much better I would be if we practiced 45 minutes of straight techniques learning, applying, and resisting. I do like kata, it is similar in my eye to shadow boxing or punching a bag but, you need resistance.

How you practice is how you will fight end of story.

**Mr hide** · Posted On: 4/26/2005 11:40pm

1. Like every other martial art your school has no groundgame

2.You dont practice with aliveness

I have practised ninjutsu before and there techniques work but they dont have any sparring. So I advise you

1. CROSS TRAIN!!!!! BJJ PLEASE

2. get some of your buddies buy some protective gear and after every class practise every techique realistically and do some sparring with your buddies.

ps. you want to do some real ninja ****, go to their school register with them for like 6 months train as hard as you can with them learn as much as you can with from them. Then when you know there coming to challege your school, side with your people.

**Mr hide** · Posted On: 4/26/2005 11:42pm

1. Like every other martial art your school has no groundgame

2.You dont practice with aliveness

I have practised ninjutsu before and there techniques work but they dont have any sparring. So I advise you

1. CROSS TRAIN!!!!! BJJ PLEASE

2. get some of your buddies buy some protective gear and after every class practise every techique realistically and do some sparring with your buddies.

ps. you want to do some real ninja ****, go to their school register with them for like 6 months train as hard as you can with them learn as much as you can with from them. Then when you know there coming to challege your school, side with your people.

**Lane** · Posted On: 4/27/2005 1:03am

C'mon now... there were much better posts in the thread from Seago-sensei and Martin-sensei...

What many of you accuse the Booj of is true... at some dojo. At others, it's not. Anyone who doubts this should stop by a good dojo. Both Ed Martin-sensei and Dale Seago-sensei would be good people to go look at. Anyone in the Austin area can stop by my dojo.

To all the people in the Bujinkan who criticize it -- why do you continue to train in the Bujinkan if you feel you need to cross-train? Why not just stick in the arts you need to cross train in?

**ArmchairNinja** · Posted On: 4/27/2005 1:51am

Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin

Take a few hundred small pieces of paper and label each with different tags such as unarmed, sword, knife, many opponents, spear, in water, in a smoke filled burning house, on horse back, while sick, after three days with no food and water and put these in a large container. Now, you draw out one piece and have someone else take another. Now, that’s mixed martial arts the way someone following the Old Ways think about it.

Ninjutsu may have been great in the historical context it originated in, but in today's society you don't fight sword-wielding horse-riding opponents inside burning buildings while being sick. The only weapons you will face are handguns and knives and it's just not worth the risk to pull any ninja tricks when faced with either. Why can't these neo-ninjas just admit that their art is not optimal for modern day context?

**Spunky** · Posted On: 4/27/2005 2:28am

Arahoushi, one cross-training implies supplementary study to a foundational system, which is the Bujinkan for myself.

I love budo taijutsu. As much as I enjoy learning about other arts and training/discussing with their proponents, I feel at home here. There is a sense of depth and life to the art that I haven't felt elsewhere. As important as I think it is to get EXPOSED to boxing and groundfighting specialists, I appreciate the wide variety of weaponry we train with in the Bujinkan, the amazing versatility of the principles, and overall how it enriches my life.

I'm always banging my head against the wall watching discussion turn into a comparison of budo taijutsu with MMA stuff. I think that some Bujinkan people need to rethink what the beneficial purpose of competition and sparring CAN be, and it's detractors need to understand how the context of the two approaches are totally different. There are many people working in law enforcement, military, and personal protection/security professions who have a need for training certain kinds of conditions and stake their lives on this system. The concepts in the budo taijutsu transfer very well to using and wearing a variety of equipment, improvised weapons, and dealing with unusual and suprise circumstances.

Flexibility of body and mind are important, and it is exactly for this reason that exposure to other training methods is a no-brainer. AND I think there is, in many Bujinkan circles, an underappreciation for how sparring at the very least is important in developing a comfort in dangerous situations. I don't know what better way there is to test your development in muto dori and fudoshin.

Why can't these neo-ninjas just admit that their art is not optimal for modern day context?

I don't think any Bujinkan teachers pretend that getting mugged at Naginata-point is a realistic possibility :icon_bigg But the concepts present in daisho-sabaki, and in general fighting within an armed context, still apply even though the weapons themselves have changed. Besides, fighting with polearms is a blast anyway, and using many different weapons (antiquated or not) provides some interesting insights into controlling space.

**Otaku Waffle** · Posted On: 4/27/2005 2:29am

Originally Posted by Arahoushi

To all the people in the Bujinkan who criticize it -- why do you continue to train in the Bujinkan if you feel you need to cross-train? Why not just stick in the arts you need to cross train in?

To get more training time in. Because a lot of the principles are sound and I try and see how they apply to my other arts, which gives me a better understanding of what I'm doing which in turn speeds up the training process. Because our BBT teacher is also a civil engineer and thus laughs at the mystical mumbo-jumbo when it crops up. Etc.

By the way, it's practitioners like you who prove some of katana's points: i.e. even if the "official" line is that cross-training is good, the social climate of the BBT does nothing to encourage it.

**Shadowdh** · Posted On: 4/27/2005 2:37am

Originally Posted by It is Fake??

How many boxers do you hear about getting beat up in the street. I can't name one. How mant TMA do you hear about getting beat up in the street. Many.

Just to clarify I have heard of boxers being beaten up in the street... (one or two have even made the papers (one in Australia... may have to dig that one up)) and

wtf is he on about when you throw paper in the air... jesus...

**cyrijl** · Posted On: 4/27/2005 8:07am

i looked into a booj school when i was looking to cross train...although the instructor was tough and fast it was because he trained in boxing, muay thai and silat in addition to thaijutsu. He said straight to me "THese guys can't fight, they have never taken a punch and wouldn't know how to react to one". They 'trained' hard, but they never sparred and even the instructor saw that as a major defect.

**Mr hide** · Posted On: 4/27/2005 8:35am

To all the people in the Bujinkan who criticize it -- why do you continue to train in the Bujinkan if you feel you need to cross-train? Why not just stick in the arts you need to cross train in?[/QUOTE]

Ok were have you been? Tell Ken shamrock that see how stupid it sounds "hey why dont you stick to Greco roman wresling and dont train in boxing because you only need to strike at all"

and another thing in ninjutsu ninjas did cross train for example DAKENTAIJUTSU is tha art in ninjutsu for striking and jutaijutsu was the art for GRAPLING why the hell do you think there are so many arts in ninjutsu any way.

One last thing by the end of the ninja era, history records ninjas were using and carrying rifles that sounds like cross training to me, one of the reasons why ninjas were so efective is because they were not tradisionalists like the samurais but now adays alot of ninjutsu practitioners fall in the same mistakes as the samurais... morons.