Classical Japanese Sword Arts and Free-Sparring

**MEGA JESUS-SAMA** · Posted On: 5/13/2005 5:32pm

The Last Samurai was based off of the story of a Frenchman who fought alongside the samurai during the Boshin war anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Brunet

**Ronin** · Posted On: 5/16/2005 7:02am

Originally Posted by rharbers

What about Samurai William Adams, "Hatamoto" to Ieyasu Tokogawa?

No more "Shogun" for you !!

**urbalte** · Posted On: 5/17/2005 5:17pm

Well.....he never actually "fought" ( I use this as in battle field terms) alongside the samurai in the epic battles that toppled castles and such. In fact, I live near one toppled castle from back in the 1300's. Neat stuff.

**Te No Kage!** · Posted On: 5/17/2005 8:34pm

Since when did feudal-era samurai have time for all this training? Weren't they out and about fighting for real? My limited understanding of these arts is that they were for samurai/soldiers whose lives weren't really worth that much. During every encounter there were three outcomes: 1) you both die, 2) you live your opponent dies, and 3) your opponent lives and you die. So you only had 33% chance of survining each encounter. Having said that, these kenjutsu methods were designed for warriors and not duelists. It was a calculated risk that they would probably die in battle, which was cool as long as they took the other guy out at the same time. I think today's schools have pretty good training regimes of including three main tools of training: free sparring with shinai, kata with bokken, and cutting tameshigiri with live blades. But at the end of the day, it is a true anachronistic endeavor which is neither here nor there.

**Bard of DorAr** · Posted On: 5/18/2005 1:56am

Originally Posted by Muqatil

True, not many have to worry about sword fights. For those of us in the military though, sword work directly translates to bayonet fighting. The movements are the same, the attacks are pretty much the same, the targets are the same. Learning to attack weak points in old Japanese armor helps also. Those weak points are the same in modern combat armor. Sword work still has its relevance today, you just have to know what to look for. ;)

Nothing like the look on many people's faces the first time I was given a "bayonet" and told to attack and I drop one hand lunged with it... :)

That aside. Some thoughts.

Probable Fact: The well trained Samurai of olden times were better swordsmen than I am.

Probable Fact: I'm a better swordsman than most anyone who only does kata, form and test cutting.

Probably Conclusion: There had to be sparring going on.

And I have to agree with others, no part of my free sparring ever involves me doing things the weapon's not meant for. Free Sparring doesn't automatically mean I suddenly drop everything else I know and start hard blocking. For that matter, people hate me in free sparring precisely because I don't do that. I void near constantly, which is exactly what you're supposed to do. I never would have learned the timing, footwork, and intuition I need for doing such if I only did form and test cutting.

That said. Fight full out, unarmored with shinai, fight 3/4 - full in armor with Bokken. Do forms, kata, test cutting and maybe 1/4 non-contact fighting with live blades or blunted blades. Not perfect, but it does the job well.

PS: I'm alive, if anyone actually remembers me or cares.

**Te No Kage!** · Posted On: 5/18/2005 5:45am

We've all been wondering what happened to you man. Please stay awhile.

**Ronin** · Posted On: 5/18/2005 6:29am

You guys to like to complicate things don't you?

Live blade = kata
Wooden sword = sparring ( both prearranged AND free sparring).

**rharbers** · Posted On: 5/18/2005 8:17am

Originally Posted by Darth Ronin

Live blade = kata
Wooden sword = sparring ( both prearranged AND free sparring).

I agree. Kata is an excellent tool for improving body mechanics. Drilling with a partner using a bokken is very important because it helps you establish economy of motion, distancing and timing.

**Angry_Historian** · Posted On: 5/18/2005 10:17am

Urbalte,

Originally Posted by urbalte

Ok, I know I'm a newbie on this forum, but I do know some things about JSA. I practice a newer form of, but it's lineage traces back to Nakamura Taizaburo (who is famous here in Japan for being one of the gretest swordsmen in Japan's history). I myself actually practice Toyama Ryu Batto Jitsu (Created in 1925 by the Toyama Military Academy and taught by Nakamura Sensei). Now to get to the point....yes people did train by beating the crap out of each other with bokkuto. That's how modern day kendo came about. People eventually got tired of getting cracked in the head with wood, so they developed special training armor.

Interesting.

I do need to give some recognition to historical accuracy in the Last Samurai. While warriors did train in groups performing katas and did practice against each other (rather brutally too) they did not "spar" with gaijin. Usually gaijin were holed up in little dutch colonies on the outskirts of a particular town down south of here. Up until Commodore Matthew Perry came stompin' into town anyway.

It wasn't simply a matter of "little Dutch colonies"--the Portuguese and Spanish (who traded with Japan from their bases in Goa, Macau, Manilla, etc) had a fairly strong presence in Japan from the mid-1540s, until 1609, when Andre Pessoa really pissed the Japanese off during the incident involving his great carrack, the Nossa Senhora de Graca. FWIW, Pessoa himself was apparently a competent swordsman, as he fought with sword-and-shield (espada y rodela) during that action, and killed a couple of samurai himself.

But, there you have it. The plain and simple truth. And remember, if you keep playin' like that you're gonna get hurt. It's all fun and games 'till someone loses an eye!

Your comment actually reminds me of the prayer said by 18th century English singlestick players before their bouts--"Lord, spare our eyes".

Peace,

A_H