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  1. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 2:01am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's funny. I learned the first 2 Ashihara fighting kata's back in 94ish... And was familiar with Joko then. I look at his book in 2000 and he has added armlocks and **** straight out of BJJ in his book. I was like....awwww c'mon.
    Uhm If you were familiar with Joko you know he did Judo before doing karate. SO he didn't get add armlocks and **** straight out of BJJ. Ya fucking dumbass.

    JUDO UBER ALLES!!!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 9:44am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://crane.50megs.com/index6j.htm

    Link provided by Shadowdh on another thread. It deals with Tai Chi/Oyama/Ashihara and Enshin
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  3. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 12:21pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EVIL ASIA
    Uhm If you were familiar with Joko you know he did Judo before doing karate. SO he didn't get add armlocks and **** straight out of BJJ. Ya fucking dumbass.

    JUDO UBER ALLES!!!!
    And if you were at all familiar with Joko's history, and the evolution of Kyokush to Ahshihara to Enshin and the book I am talking about you would see it was quite obviously in direct response to the BJJ revolution. It was a little tack on to his system that simply doesn't flow. Like throwing a steak into the blender with your fruit smoothy.

    Like I said, my friend teaches this system, and has competed in the Sabaki Challenge. So yes, I do know WTF I am talking about. I began watching it in in the early 90's. And through the evolution you can see the gradual acceptance of more sweeps and throws. Referees have now added more time that an opponent can hold another opponent and try a throw.

    His style is knockdown Karate. Period. It isn't a blend of Judo and Karate. Sure, they will allow the use of Judo throws but they allow ZERO groundwork in the Sabaki Challenge. Zero.

    When you look at his book in the back, in the WAY back you see groundwork self defense. And yes, it is textbook BJJ. As a student of BOTH I can see that the market forced him to include groundwork, and specifically self defense groundwork, and more specifically techniques straight from BJJ 101 in his book. Had that book been published 10 years earlier there would be no grappling at all. None. But the constant bombardment of how effective BJJ is caused him to include some in his book. No, obviously he is not a BJJ student. But there is a huge difference between picking up a Judo book, picking up a BJJ book, and picking up the precursor to the Enshin book - called Ashihara, fighting karate. Look at Joko's book.

    In the 90's it was like, knock your opponent down and then stomp kick him in the ribs, turn to face next opponent. Now its like knock your opponent down and then apply an armlock.

    There is no denying that BJJ has infiltrated some of the most traditional arts, and it does not suprise me at all that it made its way into one of the more innovative karate methods.

    Let me put it another way. If Rorion didn't introduce BJJ to N America there would be no groundwork in that book. None.
  4. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 12:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Did you read Joko's other book? the auto-biography?
  5. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 12:32pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    this is the book?
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  6. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 12:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes. :fist:
  7. patfromlogan is offline
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    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 12:42pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hey thanks for this thread guys, I just ordered for under $5 including shipping!

    http://users.iafrica.com/a/as/ashihara/webdoc14.htm is an interesting account of the S. Africa connections to Ashihara.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  8. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 12:49pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In his auto-biography, Joko talks about his Judo training.
  9. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 1:11pm

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     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I asked the Enshin instructor about submissions and groundwork in Enshin and basically he said it is in the curriculum but it's not used in competitions. We do drill alot of sweeps and trips though, but that is allowed. The actual question was about learning the triangle choke, and me not knowing the Japanese term.
  10. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2005 1:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ojgsxr6
    I asked the Enshin instructor about submissions and groundwork in Enshin and basically he said it is in the curriculum but it's not used in competitions. We do drill alot of sweeps and trips though, but that is allowed. The actual question was about learning the triangle choke, and me not knowing the Japanese term.
    IF ground work is in the curriculum, it would be under the "self defence" part.
    I would think that it would depend on the school and the background of the head instructor.

    I think Enshin is more open to someone teaching grappling, if it is in their background, I wouldn't say that it makes up a part of every class in every dojo.
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