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  1. MattCompo is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2013 6:00am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA, BJJ.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Opinions on traditional weapons training in a modern world.

    Hi all, not quite sure where to put this question. I thought about the weapons forum but It seems that's a firearms or gtfo section.

    Anyway, my question is: Is training in arts like Kali and Kendo, or training with say a bo staff/bokken at home any use in the world today, except as a hobby?
  2. Keej613 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 1:02pm


     Style: It's complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattCompo View Post
    Hi all, not quite sure where to put this question. I thought about the weapons forum but It seems that's a firearms or gtfo section.

    Anyway, my question is: Is training in arts like Kali and Kendo, or training with say a bo staff/bokken at home any use in the world today, except as a hobby?
    Even if you don't ever plan on carrying a knife with you in case **** goes down, I'm sure that kali practitioners would still tell you that it's useful since they believe that their techniques can be used for empty-handed fighting / defending.

    That being said, unless you picture yourself getting into weapons fights and/or street fights where makeshift weapons just happen to be laying around for you to pick up, my personal opinion is that for, most people in stable, fully-developped countries, weapons training is a hobby.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 1:54pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    I've usually got some kind of weapon on hand. I keep a knife clipped to my pocket, there's a fixed blade and a jack handle in my car, various large knives and bludgeons around my house, a bowie knife in my traveling van, and I walk with a staff and a survival knife when I'm out hiking. Also pepper spray because I'd rather spray someone than cut or smash them (or, I'd rather fight a blind guy). I'd consider any of these as a big asset in a serious conflict, but on the other hand they aren't really a match for a firearm and some distance. That's a level of violence I've not yet thoroughly trained, but I'm okay with that.

    As far as training goes, I spar with weapons from staff length to baston to knife, and I figure playing with trained FMA guys puts me at an advantage over the average goon who picks up a cold weapon. Of course, with any fighting there's the "puncher's chance", and a "lucky punch" with a weapon could end you, so I'd rather not fight the chumpiest of chumps in a weapons fight if its avoidable.

    One of my biggest weapon fighting concerns, especially with knives, is the opponent who doesn't care about his own safety and will drive forward and take hits to give hits. The FMA guys I play with don't generally do this- they're more like fencers. They respect hits and follow a "hit and don't be hit" philosophy. When a real person is enraged enough to come at you with a weapon, they might just have the "hit" part in their brain. That leads to "double kills", where nobody wins.

    I'm a big advocate of light, agile footwork, especially for weapon work. Aside from being better than rooted stances for dodging and avoiding, they more easily transition to sprinting or fleeing. I also advocate attacking incoming limbs while triangling away as the prime method of weapon fighting, which is simple and can be taught quickly but requires space.

    Re the bokken and sword: a bokken is a lethal weapon that can be closely approximated with a stout walking stick. I think a walking stick is a practical weapon if you're the type who will actually carry one. But if its not at hand its not practical. I also believe that a wide walking stick grip is better than a sword grip when your weapon is an actual stick.

    I don't really think the sword is practical because who carries a sword around? I have no doubts a good sword rigorously applied to a home invader would end them in short order, but I find it kind of strange how some sword arts people almost lust after such a gruesome encounter. I've got some Cold Steel swords and I'll bet if I pulled them on home invaders, there'd be blood everywhere and I'd have PTSD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    That being said, unless you picture yourself getting into weapons fights and/or street fights where makeshift weapons just happen to be laying around for you to pick up
    I feel that improvised weapons' utility is often overoptimistic, due to self defense empowerment classes and Jason Bourne/Jackie Chan movies. If someone is going to attack you, you're not gonna have time to yank a branch off a tree or dig through your toolbox. Also, a lot of weapons the self defense masters will tell you about are more to illustrate their point that "everything is a weapon!" rather than actual practical weapons. The rolled up magazine, for example, is a commonly taught improvised weapon (not as a knuckleduster but as a kubotan sort of thing). I feel that improvised weapon teachers are often setting their students up for false confidence in questionable techniques.
    Last edited by Permalost; 10/25/2013 2:02pm at .
  4. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 1:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are in a job where people who don't like you might pick up anything sharp or blunt and try to apply it to you, you're far better off if you know what they might do--which is best learned by training it yourself.

    The more you know about the various possibilities, the better position you are in to counter them. Kinda like takedown attempts--train takedowns, even (or especially) if you "have no intention of going to the ground".
  5. CapnMunchh is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 2:14pm

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    When I go hiking, or am out on the road late at night, I carry a Glock. If its mid-summer and I can't conceal it well, I carry a Ruger LCP or Seecamp .32. The latter is more of an impact weapon, in that I think I'd have to put it against someone's neck for it to be effective (or put it in a sock and swing it). When I can't carry a pistol, I carry pepper spray, as I think its always better to keep my distance if possible. Lately I have been looking at stun guns, but I wonder how effective they are over heavy clothing.

    Training with a traditional weapon would be helpful if you're willing to carry a knife or impact weapon and use it. Problem is, in our society the knife is thought of as a bad guy's weapon. I'd rather face a grand jury having shot someone than having stabbed him. A self defense type cane might be ok, but it looks out of place unless you look like you're old enough to need it. I guess a hiking stick works ok, if you're hiking.
  6. Keej613 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 2:31pm


     Style: It's complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I've usually got some kind of weapon on hand. I keep a knife clipped to my pocket, there's a fixed blade and a jack handle in my car, various large knives and bludgeons around my house, a bowie knife in my traveling van, and I walk with a staff and a survival knife when I'm out hiking. Also pepper spray because I'd rather spray someone than cut or smash them (or, I'd rather fight a blind guy). I'd consider any of these as a big asset in a serious conflict, but on the other hand they aren't really a match for a firearm and some distance. That's a level of violence I've not yet thoroughly trained, but I'm okay with that.
    I'm not being snarky here (this is genuine curiosity): Is there a reason you have so many weapons around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I feel that improvised weapons' utility is often overoptimistic
    That's kindof what I was insinuating in my previous posts. This isn't feudal Japan. If a crazy guy at the mall pulls out a sword, machete, nunchucks (whatever), your first reaction shouldn't be to find an improvized weapon and confront the guy with your skills and magic; your first reaction should be to get everyone to safety and notify the authorities.
  7. Keej613 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 2:39pm


     Style: It's complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    When I go hiking, or am out on the road late at night, I carry a Glock. If its mid-summer and I can't conceal it well, I carry a Ruger LCP or Seecamp .32. The latter is more of an impact weapon, in that I think I'd have to put it against someone's neck for it to be effective (or put it in a sock and swing it). When I can't carry a pistol, I carry pepper spray, as I think its always better to keep my distance if possible. Lately I have been looking at stun guns, but I wonder how effective they are over heavy clothing.
    Again, honestly not being snarky, just genuinely curious: Is it really so dangerous where you live that you need to carry weapons around just to go for a hike or a drive? The worse thing I have to worry about when I go for a hike is raccoons with rabies, a bear or a moose in heat.
  8. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 2:40pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    I'm not being snarky here (this is genuine curiosity): Is there a reason you have so many weapons around?
    Once I had a few nice weapons, I guess it became common knowledge that I was a "weapon collector", which became a self-fulfilling prophecy when gifts are exchanged. "Around" seemed like the best place to store them.

    Also if weapon collecting were a drug, my FMA and CMA friends would be my enablers. I post a pic of a kusarigama I made, and they tell me its awesome instead of suggesting I have a problem.

    I also keep a toolbox of "barterables" for when my weird friends and I exchange questionably legal items. You never know when you're gonna want a switchblade to sweeten a deal on Mexican fireworks or a huge boltcutter that fell off a truck or something.


    That's kindof what I was insinuating in my previous posts. This isn't feudal Japan. If a crazy guy at the mall pulls out a sword, machete, nunchucks (whatever), your first reaction shouldn't be to find an improvized weapon and confront the guy with your skills and magic; your first reaction should be to get everyone to safety and notify the authorities.
    Keyboard warrior note: I kinda wish those small Japanese weighted chains were legal here.
    Last edited by Permalost; 10/25/2013 2:46pm at .
  9. Keej613 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 2:44pm


     Style: It's complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Once I had a few nice weapons, I guess it became common knowledge that I was a "weapon collector", which became a self-fulfilling prophecy when gifts are exchanged. "Around" seemed like the best place to store them.

    I also keep a toolbox of "barterables" for when my weird friends and I exchange questionably legal items. You never know when you're gonna want a switchblade to sweeten a deal on Mexican fireworks or a huge boltcutter that fell off a truck or something.
    Ah! Ok! So you're more of a collector . . . it's not like there are ninjas after you or you ratted on MS13 or you're a spy who defected.

    Maybe small Japanese weighted necklaces are legal. ;)
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2013 2:48pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keej613 View Post
    The worse thing I have to worry about when I go for a hike is raccoons with rabies, a bear or a moose in heat.
    I'd at least want my stick against a moose in heat.
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