232827 Bullies, 3631 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 50
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12 345 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

    Seeker of Truth

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,943

    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 8:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunky
    I don't understand what ''art'' has to do with bad training :icon_ques

    I'm sure I see different things in that video from you Punisher, I appreciate you being nostalgic and all, but this epitomizes every problem I've ever had with Kenpo. The biggest one being so much attention paid to hand speed and flailing strikes that leave the rest of the body behind. I get the impression that they're throwing technique out as fast as they can at the expense of good posturing/structure and position, which makes me think that under real stress they will just end up falling down all over the place.
    We pretty much saw the same thing.

    Speaking of art... in music you can't really play a piece unless you can play it slowly and still follow through with proper form, rhythm, and feeling. You might be able to rush to the end, speed might help glaze over the mistakes--but you haven't really played the song, just a fast series of tones. There's nothing artful about that. In figure drawing my first personal challenge was at first being able to fill even a 20 minute space to draw the model in one pose. By the end of that class I was feeling rushed at several hours.
    I never said it was good art, but to me that type of kenpo is about expressing yourself through motion.

    An interesting thing with drawing is that first 5-second gesture, and keeping it alive throughout the drawing. I think that maybe the 'basics' in martial arts is the gesture drawing of all technique. It's very easy to rush to the fancy stuff or get lost in the details, but step back and you'll find the overall piece is dead. Anyway there's something very similar going on in all these disciplines. ART has nothing to do with being pretty or being able to reproduce. It's not even the process. The art, in my opinion, is keeping an intangible ''gesture'' alive through the process.
    Too insightful. Me engineer. Me no understand art. No comment.
  2. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

    Seeker of Truth

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,943

    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 8:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mcjon
    I was wondering if any of the kenpo guys on this forum (Clyde, Punisher, etc) could comment on the difference in skill displayed on that video between those kenpo practitioners who already had black belts in another type of kenpo and those who used only their video course. For instance, the guy who did the knife demo had only trained via video and IMHO it showed. Looking at the video again, can you make any inferences regarding the quality of their video black belts (ignoring, for now, questions regarding the effectiveness of kenpo in general).

    Thanks

    Jon
    You know I really didn't notice, but I would expect a guy who already had 4 or 5 years of training before watching the tapes to be better than a guy who didn't. Experience and familiarity counts for a lot. If you were going to compare it would have to be against someone that didn't have a BB in another kenpo system first. Even then you'd probably have to see them do the same forms, same techinques, etc.

    Don't get me wrong, I personally think testing by video is bullshido. Video tapes can be great tools, but without face to face time and/or an already extensive knowledge base, not so much. They're like books, decent supplement for training, but not a good source for it.
  3. Clyde is offline
    Clyde's Avatar

    Kenpo Instructor

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
    Posts
    583

    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 8:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunky
    I don't understand what ''art'' has to do with bad training :icon_ques

    I'm sure I see different things in that video from you Punisher, I appreciate you being nostalgic and all, but this epitomizes every problem I've ever had with Kenpo. The biggest one being so much attention paid to hand speed and flailing strikes that leave the rest of the body behind. I get the impression that they're throwing technique out as fast as they can at the expense of good posturing/structure and position, which makes me think that under real stress they will just end up falling down all over the place.

    Speaking of art... in music you can't really play a piece unless you can play it slowly and still follow through with proper form, rhythm, and feeling. You might be able to rush to the end, speed might help glaze over the mistakes--but you haven't really played the song, just a fast series of tones. There's nothing artful about that. In figure drawing my first personal challenge was at first being able to fill even a 20 minute space to draw the model in one pose. By the end of that class I was feeling rushed at several hours.

    An interesting thing with drawing is that first 5-second gesture, and keeping it alive throughout the drawing. I think that maybe the 'basics' in martial arts is the gesture drawing of all technique. It's very easy to rush to the fancy stuff or get lost in the details, but step back and you'll find the overall piece is dead. Anyway there's something very similar going on in all these disciplines. ART has nothing to do with being pretty or being able to reproduce. It's not even the process. The art, in my opinion, is keeping an intangible ''gesture'' alive through the process.

    You're seeing the substandard of the art, unfortunately, it's prevalent because of laziness. I call it Kenpophobia, and most Kenpoists are happy in their mediocrity, I'm not. Unfortunately, I'm such a dick to people they're actually scared to bring me into their studio to actually learn something LOL. Kenpophobia lives on.

    What percentage of basketball, baseball, or football players actually make it to the Majors? Well, Kenpo is the same way, lots of armchair quarterbacks and weekend hoopers, and they even teach their limited skills of the game to others. Oh well, until you see me in person, I'm just another boring Kenpoist.

    Have a great Kenpo day

    Clyde
    Saving Kenpo souls one at a time!

    Put down your purse!

    Speed is fine, but accuracy is final. Wyatt Earp, 1888

    "For certain 'tis a shameful spite, and dreadful to the heart,
    For an Irishman to see a fight, and not be taking part."

    --"How McPherson Held the Floor"
  4. Clyde is offline
    Clyde's Avatar

    Kenpo Instructor

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Phoenix AZ
    Posts
    583

    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 8:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mcjon
    I was wondering if any of the kenpo guys on this forum (Clyde, Punisher, etc) could comment on the difference in skill displayed on that video between those kenpo practitioners who already had black belts in another type of kenpo and those who used only their video course. For instance, the guy who did the knife demo had only trained via video and IMHO it showed. Looking at the video again, can you make any inferences regarding the quality of their video black belts (ignoring, for now, questions regarding the effectiveness of kenpo in general).

    Thanks

    Jon

    A lot of the IKCA people are actually taking up EPAK again because they see something missing from the IKCA program. I know there's a whole lot missing from it, which is why I left Vic in 1990, I found the real ****.

    Have a great Kenpo day

    Clyde
    Saving Kenpo souls one at a time!

    Put down your purse!

    Speed is fine, but accuracy is final. Wyatt Earp, 1888

    "For certain 'tis a shameful spite, and dreadful to the heart,
    For an Irishman to see a fight, and not be taking part."

    --"How McPherson Held the Floor"
  5. Wounded Ronin is offline
    Wounded Ronin's Avatar

    ...is THE PENETRATOR

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,829

    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 9:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, that video sure seemed better than the other ridiculous videos at karateconnection.com, and as a lover of history I really appreciated the old footage. However, what the crap kind of name is "certain destruction"? It seems like an inherently misleading name because you don't really know if what you're about to do will actually destroy your opponent or not.
    Best Vietnam War music video I've ever seen put together by a vet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDY8raKsdfg
  6. wingchunnewbie is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    706

    Posted On:
    4/12/2005 7:52am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kempo Hair

    Why does Kempo attract so many people with questionable hair styles ?

    From Ed Parker's strange 'warholesque' mop, to Larry Tatum and his fellow Kempo mullets, the style seems plagued by instructors with strange, half-assed retro hairstyles. What gives ? What' the origin of 'Kempo Hair' ?
  7. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
    Posts
    10,587

    Posted On:
    4/12/2005 8:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin
    However, what the crap kind of name is "certain destruction"? It seems like an inherently misleading name because you don't really know if what you're about to do will actually destroy your opponent or not.
    I try not to get on Kenpo names because I know that many of the arts I've trained when translated had some hockey sounding names. But they just love them. Here are a few I remeber from my very short kenpo days:

    Sword of Destruction
    Delayed Sword
    Lone Kimono
    Twin Kimono
    Raining Claw
    Destructive KNEEL
    Escape form the Storm
    CAPTURING THE ROD!!!!
    Prance of the Tiger
    Marriage of the Rams

    There are many many more but thats what I remember now.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. The Kai is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    67

    Posted On:
    4/12/2005 8:42am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "It even starts out with a good message, stressing the need for constant evolution in MA and the importance of competition in finding out what really works. Even shows Chuck Sullivan in his 30's doing some kata."

    This is the part i always wonder about, the IKCA preachs "constant evolution', right? So if you look at thier history they actually broke off from Parker, when Parker was adopting, adapting kenpo into a new direction therefore keeping thier brand of kenpo rooted in the Kenpo karate methods that were the 60's version. That is why IKCA and tracy's have simiarities.
    So the evolution the IKCA talks about is it merely a cutting down of the system??
  9. Basho is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    51

    Posted On:
    4/12/2005 9:15am


     Style: GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well from watching through that video a few times I have the following observations, some of which you have already mentioned:

    Good:

    1. Targetting with hands. Many of the "better" guys had good targeting and moving from one technique to another with good distance.


    BAD:

    1. Non resistive practice. In its basic form not having the opponent resist will enable you to learn distance, timing on spins and leg work. However, these are the lessons of the beginner. no black belt should still use it. It is death. In fact, how they can call themselves black belts and still do stuff like this is amazing.

    2. Lack of power. Much of what I saw had no power whatsoever. The stuff on the dummy was performed with no power on the legs and from very very short range. One may say that they are striking the vital points, but I saw mainly jaw bone, upper neck, mid stomach and groin techniques fired off at a stupid speed. No vital points struck at all. All at the sort of speed only a dummy (with no arms!) will allow you to do. In the group techniques I saw no power at all and in many of the body movements no ability to add power.

    3. Very bad kicks. In the whole video I saw one good kick (from the first adult black belt fighting off the multiples). This was a side kick to the face which had good speed. The rest of the kicks had no power and due to body position no ability to ever have power. The low kicks were particularly bad with many of the performers not even looking at their targets.

    4. Choreography. Now, we all use routines to sell our arts depending on audience. We of course wish to show off the best of the techniques. This forgives much of the "set up" nature of the attacks but personally I hate it when I can see a guy just waiting to attack. This is the most offensive bullshido. A routine should flow from the oponents. Once a guy gets up he should atack. I saw no effort to use one attacker to block another. Even the older and purportedly more experienced guys here were throwing blocks BEFORE the attack. This is shite.

    5. Home Course. HOME FUCKING COURSE!? sod off. Training on ones own is for black belts and above IMHO, and requires constant adjustment lest you go miles off message. more dangerous is the fact that 90% of a fight is mental. Good combat mindsets only come through aggressive practice against non compliant opponents of similar or better skill level (or the street - of course).

    6. Bowing. What in the wide world of sports was that bow!? That was like 8 moves! Stupid.


    Basically, that video was bullshido.

    Basho
    Last edited by Basho; 4/12/2005 9:21am at .
  10. a practitioner is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1

    Posted On:
    12/15/2005 2:07pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    here in lies the problem with the martial arts today

    This represents a sad state of affairs. I have been through this site from one end to the other and have found NO redeeming qualities to it. It caters to the baisest nature of the martial arts. The need to HURT people. I say this, knowing I will be flamed and expunged from the site but thats okay because this is not an enviornment I wish to be in anyway.

    The videos posted here, for the most part, are not for the benefit of anyones training but, instead, to glorify violence. Take the video of "girls fighting." Did all of you "frat boys" have a good time beating off watching girls beating the **** out of each other. Maybe some of your students parents would reconsider allowing their children to train under you if they saw some of the items on this site. Try to imagine what a parent might say, considering a number of you "claim" to be instructors. If that is the attitude you maintain when training peoples children then your dojos are the last place my children will see.

    And the style bashing that goes on is unbelievable. My style is better than your style. This style sucks, that instructor is a piece of ****. So much "positive" attitude here, NOT!!!!!!

    You view the martial arts as a way to say MY DICK IS BIGGER THAN YOURS. Thats a great way to instill values in your students. Take Clyde for example. He's proud to be a dick. I wouldn't want you in my school either. Not with that attitude. Not that i need your help anyway. The sad part is you're a senior ranked black belt. With that chip on your shoulder(more like a redwood) and a head that size, its amazing you can walk upright. Whats wrong, did the IKCA steal some of your students. Give me a break. You degrade the IKCA because they take money out of your pocket. Chuck and Vic have brought the art of Kenpo to those that otherwise would never have found it.

    The general climate of this site is one of ego. You aren't interested in enhancing the arts, you just want to shock people. You take pleasure in other peoples pain, you denigrate and insult those that ask a question or state an opinion, calling them names because you don't agree with their point of view. You don't know how to have a "rational" discussion. Its all about I'm right and you are wrong so **** you. And if you don't like it the site moderator will just boot you.

    So have fun marvelling at your dicks and bashing other peoples views on the martial arts, oh, and while you're at it, grow up!
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12 345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.