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  1. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

    Seeker of Truth

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    Sacramento, CA
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 2:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Good Kenpo Video

    http://www.kenpohomestudycourse.com/...volutionhi.htm

    I was surfing around and this video clip blew me away. It's probably the single best American Kenpo clip I've ever seen. Actually it is sort of a short movie.

    It even starts out with a good message, stressing the need for constant evolution in MA and the importance of competition in finding out what really works. Even shows Chuck Sullivan in his 30's doing some kata.

    The kenpo clips towards the end show the best and worst of kenpo. I know it is prearranged defenses, against attackers who throw step through punches, who wait politely for their turn in a "mass attack" scenario, and then stand there like an idiot while the defender fires off an unrealistic number of strikes, but these people actually move well. They are practicing the ART of kenpo, which is more like a dance than fighting, and I can't help but find it beautiful.

    This is the art I fell in love with as a child, and the art I had to leave as an adult. Exploring endless theoretical concepts and expressing yourself through motion is fun, but it doesn't have a whole lot to do with fighting.

    The style of kenpo I practice now has a lot less art. No more step through punches, no more just standing there while your partner does a 20-move technique. It's not perfect, it's still kenpo, but a think it's a step in the right direction and consistent with the message at the beginning of the video.

    My school may still be a McDojo, but we're a few steps farther away from Bullshido and I know we're better off. Still, I can't help but miss it sometimes. It takes me back to the "good old days", a time of innocence, a time before I knew how things really worked in the world. I guess that's what books and videos are for.
  2. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 3:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Evolution of kenpo, from the looks of things its got a looooong way to go. Too bad none of that crap's going to work outside the comfort of a kenpo dojo. As for 'Mass attack.' Mass attack is not multiple attackers standing there waiting their turn to be beaten up by some kenpo guy staying in the center of a threat zone, that's delusional and idiotic. These morons may want to take a tip from the aikido folks on how this is done correctly. By the way, I read about those two jokers all the time in Black Belt magazine articles, they look as incompetent in print as they do on video.

    I follow a fairly simple rule of thumb, if it's not going to work against a grappler, you probably shouldn't waste your time.
    Last edited by Kungfoolss; 4/11/2005 3:27am at .
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  3. BaguaMonk is offline

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    Dec 2004
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 3:59am


     Style: Alien Cosmic Chi Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I still think that real traditional Shaolin Kung fu (which is almost non existant) the art which this derived from, is more beautiful and more effective. People seem to think that the way the techniques are done in a form, are the way they would actually be USED. I still think that half these techniques are almost useless (like blocking, redirecting) without the "Zen mindseT" because then reactions occur naturally, and not as a result of identifiying the threat consciously.
  4. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 4:51am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*gasp*HAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

    I really do love kempo guys. *sniff*

    You got to love the hockey salute because its real kempo asian like. *snicker*

    Glad to know I can always become a certified Karate Connection Kenpo BB solely through video courses. Just got to work on flappling my arms around as fast as possible.

    I still think that real traditional Shaolin Kung fu (which is almost non existant) the art which this derived from, is more beautiful and more effective. People seem to think that the way the techniques are done in a form, are the way they would actually be USED. I still think that half these techniques are almost useless (like blocking, redirecting) without the "Zen mindseT" because then reactions occur naturally, and not as a result of identifiying the threat consciously.
    Oh will you SHUT UP!!! Really. You embarass the good CMArtist around.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  5. Bizzaro Root is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 8:53am


     Style: Gracie Barra Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BaguaMonk
    I still think that real traditional Shaolin Kung fu (which is almost non existant) the art which this derived from, is more beautiful and more effective. People seem to think that the way the techniques are done in a form, are the way they would actually be USED. I still think that half these techniques are almost useless (like blocking, redirecting) without the "Zen mindseT" because then reactions occur naturally, and not as a result of identifiying the threat consciously.

    so what your saying is that the real fung fu, is practiced one way and performed another. wow i always liked to practice armbars by hitting the heavey bag. or when i was learning to play basketball i actually went and played baseball to practice.
    Eduardo "Why'd you stop."

    Me "I was kicked in the head by the guys sparring next to me."

    Eduardo "Ino what happened but i didnt say you could stop."

    Me "Um.. I guess I keep going."

    Eduardo "You dont stop until i say stop, you dont get tired until i say your tired, keep going."


    Originally posted by Ralek
    My cousin gave me some tapes of him doing tkd. I learned from those tapes. When I beat up an Akido instructor, and made him take rest breaks, I used TKD. I learned Bjj from watching ufc and pride and then I copied them and wrestled my cousin for practice. I choked him out and he tapped.
  6. dramaboy is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 10:09am


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    CLYDE.....CALLING CLYDE......KEMPO NEEDS SOME EMERGENCY PR WORK!!!


    :)))

    Tomas


    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher
    http://www.kenpohomestudycourse.com/...volutionhi.htm

    I was surfing around and this video clip blew me away. It's probably the single best American Kenpo clip I've ever seen. Actually it is sort of a short movie.

    It even starts out with a good message, stressing the need for constant evolution in MA and the importance of competition in finding out what really works. Even shows Chuck Sullivan in his 30's doing some kata.

    The kenpo clips towards the end show the best and worst of kenpo. I know it is prearranged defenses, against attackers who throw step through punches, who wait politely for their turn in a "mass attack" scenario, and then stand there like an idiot while the defender fires off an unrealistic number of strikes, but these people actually move well. They are practicing the ART of kenpo, which is more like a dance than fighting, and I can't help but find it beautiful.

    This is the art I fell in love with as a child, and the art I had to leave as an adult. Exploring endless theoretical concepts and expressing yourself through motion is fun, but it doesn't have a whole lot to do with fighting.

    The style of kenpo I practice now has a lot less art. No more step through punches, no more just standing there while your partner does a 20-move technique. It's not perfect, it's still kenpo, but a think it's a step in the right direction and consistent with the message at the beginning of the video.

    My school may still be a McDojo, but we're a few steps farther away from Bullshido and I know we're better off. Still, I can't help but miss it sometimes. It takes me back to the "good old days", a time of innocence, a time before I knew how things really worked in the world. I guess that's what books and videos are for.
    Current stage of death: denial
  7. mcjon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Oct 2004
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    65

    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 11:17am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was wondering if any of the kenpo guys on this forum (Clyde, Punisher, etc) could comment on the difference in skill displayed on that video between those kenpo practitioners who already had black belts in another type of kenpo and those who used only their video course. For instance, the guy who did the knife demo had only trained via video and IMHO it showed. Looking at the video again, can you make any inferences regarding the quality of their video black belts (ignoring, for now, questions regarding the effectiveness of kenpo in general).

    Thanks

    Jon
  8. Spunky is offline

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    Minneapolis
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 12:12pm


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The style of kenpo I practice now has a lot less art. No more step through punches, no more just standing there while your partner does a 20-move technique.
    I don't understand what ''art'' has to do with bad training :icon_ques

    I'm sure I see different things in that video from you Punisher, I appreciate you being nostalgic and all, but this epitomizes every problem I've ever had with Kenpo. The biggest one being so much attention paid to hand speed and flailing strikes that leave the rest of the body behind. I get the impression that they're throwing technique out as fast as they can at the expense of good posturing/structure and position, which makes me think that under real stress they will just end up falling down all over the place.

    Speaking of art... in music you can't really play a piece unless you can play it slowly and still follow through with proper form, rhythm, and feeling. You might be able to rush to the end, speed might help glaze over the mistakes--but you haven't really played the song, just a fast series of tones. There's nothing artful about that. In figure drawing my first personal challenge was at first being able to fill even a 20 minute space to draw the model in one pose. By the end of that class I was feeling rushed at several hours.

    An interesting thing with drawing is that first 5-second gesture, and keeping it alive throughout the drawing. I think that maybe the 'basics' in martial arts is the gesture drawing of all technique. It's very easy to rush to the fancy stuff or get lost in the details, but step back and you'll find the overall piece is dead. Anyway there's something very similar going on in all these disciplines. ART has nothing to do with being pretty or being able to reproduce. It's not even the process. The art, in my opinion, is keeping an intangible ''gesture'' alive through the process.
    Last edited by Spunky; 4/11/2005 12:14pm at .
  9. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 7:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spunky

    The biggest one being so much attention paid to hand speed and flailing strikes that leave the rest of the body behind. I get the impression that they're throwing technique out as fast as they can at the expense of good posturing/structure and position, which makes me think that under real stress they will just end up falling down all over the place.

    Speaking of art... in music you can't really play a piece unless you can play it slowly and still follow through with proper form, rhythm, and feeling. You might be able to rush to the end, speed might help glaze over the mistakes--but you haven't really played the song, just a fast series of tones. There's nothing artful about that. In figure drawing my first personal challenge was at first being able to fill even a 20 minute space to draw the model in one pose. By the end of that class I was feeling rushed at several hours.
    One reason people utilize fast, jerky movements is due to poor balance and structure. It requires much more coordination and skill to do a movement correctly and smooth, rather than to do it fast and sloppy. In a sense it's cheating and only person being cheated is the practitioner themselves.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  10. The Coach is offline

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    Mar 2004
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    Hawaii
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2005 8:17pm


     Style: Hawaiian Okinawan Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Being a Kempoman myself, I say the vid was decent. Too bad it went the way it did, I hate the "attacker punch and stand still" crap...we actually still do that in practice but good thing we have sparring.
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