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  1. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2005 4:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    There is a ton of bad wing chun out there. But there is some good as well. If your instructor is good he should be able to address your concerns. Otherwise.....

    IMO, a good answer to a wild haymaker is biu sao and a punch. Biu sao is the finger strike to the eyes in the second part of siu nim tao. Use it to intercept/jam up the incoming punch between the elbow and shoulder depending on the angle, and punch with your other hand.
    Does WC not advocate, oh say, a block? Perhaps ducking/shifting/slipping?

    They must have a block for a haymaker in the style somewhere. Trying to jam an incoming punch with a finger strike sounds weird and not very practical.
  2. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2005 5:41pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Feryk
    Does WC not advocate, oh say, a block? Perhaps ducking/shifting/slipping?

    They must have a block for a haymaker in the style somewhere. Trying to jam an incoming punch with a finger strike sounds weird and not very practical.
    The idea is that it can be used as a block. You basically put your hand in the guys face and the haymaker is supposed to be deflected by your arm being outstretched towards his face. It may work for somebody with really long hands who is being attacked by somebody with really short hands.

    You could theoretically use tan-sao and punch, but that's also designed for a zombie-type haymaker.

    All these require you to be MUCH faster striker than your opponent.

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
  3. Neurotic is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2005 10:22pm


     Style: WC, Wrestling, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've done WC for a while now (and some other stuff as well), and, I wouldn't use a bil sau either. It's just silly, your arm is extended, and your opening yourself up to all sorts of hits.

    Better to keep yourself nice and tight, and not move your hands further from your face than you really have to.

    There are alot of options for handling the haymaker, but obviously they are dependent on footwork and positioning -
    • pak sau it on the outside, passing the punch by your head

    • using a tight lap sau, to pad it up the inside

    • jam it using a high bon sau to gunt his hand into your elbow


    But these could all fail, depending on how close you are, and how your footwork orients you as you do it, blah blah blah.

    Nothing really wrong with supplementing WC/Cross training, but I would only really advocate doing it once you have a solid foundation is some martial art.

    However - if it's a crap school, I'd be outta there as fast as you can. I find the litmus test is - watch the senior students spar, if there are at least 2 guys in the class you actually go '****... I would actually be scared to fight that guy', I reckon you have a decent school.

    Just my thoughts.
  4. grond is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2005 10:23pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by drummerboy
    The idea is that it can be used as a block. You basically put your hand in the guys face and the haymaker is supposed to be deflected by your arm being outstretched towards his face. It may work for somebody with really long hands who is being attacked by somebody with really short hands.

    You could theoretically use tan-sao and punch, but that's also designed for a zombie-type haymaker.

    All these require you to be MUCH faster striker than your opponent.

    Tomas
    Maybe.

    You mean long and short arms, right?
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  5. amichaell is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2005 6:14am


     Style: nothing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotic
    However - if it's a crap school, I'd be outta there as fast as you can. I find the litmus test is - watch the senior students spar, if there are at least 2 guys in the class you actually go '****... I would actually be scared to fight that guy', I reckon you have a decent school.

    Just my thoughts.
    We do have a couple of those. A while back a couple of guys in our class were sparring. One of them slipped in a punch..no different from a standard wing chun punch...but the effect was that the whole right side of his opponent's face went numb for a while. A doctor's visit revealed nerve damage.
  6. Astrosmurf is offline
    Astrosmurf's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2005 7:43am

    supporting member
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ask the instructors at the wing chun place a little about what they think of other styles, and about cross training. If they start ranting about the superiority of wing chun and stuff like that then walk away.
  7. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2005 7:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by amichaell
    We do have a couple of those. A while back a couple of guys in our class were sparring. One of them slipped in a punch..no different from a standard wing chun punch...but the effect was that the whole right side of his opponent's face went numb for a while. A doctor's visit revealed nerve damage.
    Those are good news. Still, I do believe kickboxing or Muay Thai could offer the same benefits with a faster, easier learning route, even if yours is a good wing chun school - the system itself is essentially flawed and incomplete, as I said, and will force you to conform to strange and unnecessary means of power generation, not to mention a steep learning curve.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  8. amichaell is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2005 7:58am


     Style: nothing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Those are good news. Still, I do believe kickboxing or Muay Thai could offer the same benefits with a faster, easier learning route, even if yours is a good wing chun school - the system itself is essentially flawed and incomplete, as I said, and will force you to conform to strange and unnecessary means of power generation, not to mention a steep learning curve.
    I have looked into another school in town (visit planned next week). If things don't pan out with WC for whatever reason then this school might be for me. They offer muay thai and bjj.
  9. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2005 11:02am


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Those are good news. Still, I do believe kickboxing or Muay Thai could offer the same benefits with a faster, easier learning route, even if yours is a good wing chun school - the system itself is essentially flawed and incomplete, as I said, and will force you to conform to strange and unnecessary means of power generation, not to mention a steep learning curve.
    Jesus dude, you went to a crappy school, get over it. There are some great wing chun schools.
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  10. Shuma-Gorath is offline
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2005 11:04am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    Jesus dude, you went to a crappy school, get over it. There are some great wing chun schools.
    It's just that nobody can tell you where to find one.
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