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  1. amichaell is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 11:23am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    It definately looks like a mcdojo. Traditional ving tsun doesn't have sashes or rankings like that, just younger brother, older brother and sifu.

    The presence of jesus on the site is like Feryk said a bit weird.

    I'm also worried by their claim to turn out skilled practioners in 5-7 years. 2-3 is a much more reasonable range for good wing chun.

    There aren't any videos, so I can't really comment on what the kungfu looks like.



    I'd ask your instructor what defenses they teach against different types of punches. Ask to drill them and see if they work. If the answer doesn't satisfy you, then I'd start questioning some other things.

    Which dummy techniques did you get shown?
    I'm not sure about the time frame thing. He has told me that I can expect to be a skilled fighter in a reasonably short period of time and I believe the average time it has taken someone at the school to reach black belt (for whatever that is worth) is three years. But there is still training after that and maybe that is what the 5-7 is in regards to.

    He told us the dummy techniques are broken into 10s. Maybe this is WC universal or just something that is taught there. Either way we started learned the first 10. He stressed to us that many schools don't teach the dummy until many years later, but he likes to introduce it early to help teach proper form and movement.

    Why is the Jesus stuff alarming?

    Thanks,

    Michael
  2. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 11:26am


     Style: wingy chingy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's weird to see people mixing martial arts with religion. That kind of thing generally has a bad reputation.
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  3. amichaell is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 11:32am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can see that. I'm not a religious person at all, so I've learned to tune a lot of it so as not to be bothered or bother others. Fortunately he doesn't push it at all in class. I actually can't think of a single time he's mentioned religion other than inviting everyone to a special showing of the Passion (not sure if that is the correct name...the Mel Gibson movie that came out a while back).
  4. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 11:38am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by amichaell
    I did this a couple of weeks ago when evaluating my school. The site is www.centerlineacademy.com.
    Problems I see:
    1. The "Key to peace" part of the website is a religious pitch. Nothing against religion, but it feels out of place a bit. Also, it's not a MA related problem.

    2. No pics of free sparring. Doesn't mean there is no, but it does not seem to be something they think is important enough to show off with.

    3. Advertising "groundwork". This is a recent plague of many _ing _un sites. The "groundwork" is most likely half assed made up submission and mount escapes. Don't count on it to work. WC traditionally has NO groundwork, so if it has been added on the go, it should be clearly stated and the source should be listed. It's a matter of honesty.

    4. There's a lot of Bruce Lee on the site. He's dead and can not defend himself, plus he trained with Yip Man for only a short period of time. They are trying to feed off of his fame.

    Having said all this, the school still may be good, that's something that you have to judge for yourself. Also, I am a kind of allergic to certain things because I wasted a lot of time in mediocre _ing __un, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

    Your concerns are valid, though. A LOT of WC training is training to fight against WC. The usefullness of the forms whether it's the siu nim tao or the dummy form is questionable at best. MOST other KF styles have better, more interesting and more usefull forms. I suggest you keep your options open. You don't have any comittment to this guys, you are paying them money.

    Take care and good luck with your training.

    Tomas
    Last edited by dramaboy; 4/13/2005 11:41am at .
    Current stage of death: denial
  5. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 11:56am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get a look at how they spar if you can, and find out how often they do it, and at what intensity.

    Also, it's been said, but: get thee to a judo dojo. A good grappling place will spar every single session, and you should be able to get up and try their skills from the very start if you like, though I would advise learning how to breakfall first. Judo is often almost absurdly cheap for even high-quality tuition (tonight I'm visiting a dojo which features an 2000 Olympian who teaches ne-waza fighting from the guard as sensei, and it'll cost me just £3, about $5.50 US). It'll give you excellent take-down skills, good groundwork and something to compare wing chun to.
  6. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 11:59am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh yeah. I should add £3 a session is still much more expensive than my usual place (£40 or so for about 3 months@3 times a week, i.e. $60-$70 US), and most dojos I've been to give you your first lesson free, so it's nice and easy to check out.
  7. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 12:03pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Michael, I did 2 years of Wing Chun. It does appear to make a lot of sense, you do feel like those techniques are just what you need to beat people who box/do Muay Thai/whatever, as long as you can protect your centerline you are safe, etc.

    Well, those are nothing but illusions. As stated, Wing Chun is perfect if you will only fight fellow wing chuners. It relies on silly methods of power generation (no shoulders - come on, there is a REASON boxers use their shoulders to punch), no circular attacks such as the hook, etc.

    Yes, it can eventually turn you into a fighter. But it will take longer than it would take if you were allowed to use your shoulders, and it will not prepare you for many situations which other more well rounded striking arts would. Also, the endless repetition of forms and the fact that the footwork is weird will only set you back.

    So honestly, if you want to learn striking techniques, do kickboxing, Muay Thai, or boxing.

    Oh yes. If you are out of cash and want to learn good grappling, do judo. It´s excellent (and BJJ people hate it when they can´t take you to the ground, which is always worth something...).
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  8. dramaboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 1:19pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Michael, I did 2 years of Wing Chun. It does appear to make a lot of sense, you do feel like those techniques are just what you need to beat people who box/do Muay Thai/whatever, as long as you can protect your centerline you are safe, etc.

    Well, those are nothing but illusions. As stated, Wing Chun is perfect if you will only fight fellow wing chuners. It relies on silly methods of power generation (no shoulders - come on, there is a REASON boxers use their shoulders to punch), no circular attacks such as the hook, etc.
    _must resist inserting standard _ing __un counter argument here_

    :)

    Really, Michael, WCL has err3ct3d teh corr3ct.

    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
  9. amichaell is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 1:34pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I get what you guys are saying, and I can't really disagree. I am conflicted about what to do, though. As I've said before my wife is in the class and really enjoys it, so she doesn't want me to leave. I also hate skipping out on something I feel obligated in fulfilling at least to more of an extent that I have at this point.

    If I do leave WC I want to pursue stand-up and ground fighting, so I'll need to look into what is offered around here.

    Thanks for the help.
  10. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/13/2005 1:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No problem Michael. I understand the wife changes things, and I understand you do want to stay a bit longer to make up your mind about WC, no problem.

    Just keep a critical eye on your WC class, consider what we said here, and go check out judo and BJJ (if you are interested in grappling). If you finally decide to change arts, talk to your wife and ask her to go to a judo/BJJ class with you, and explain your reasons for wanting to change. Self defense is also a goal of martial arts, after all, and that should be reason enough to convince her.

    Anyway, do keep us informed, and welcome to bullshido.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
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