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  1. Lil Vegemite is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2005
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 2:33am


     Style: Judo, Aikido, Dododo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really dont get why the bunnies always end up attributing this throw to "ki", but if you define this as timing, or momentum, or body physics - then I guess it is "ki" after all.
    Omegas right, a lot of aiki technique is mesmerism, theres even a commercially available manual on Daito-ryu which backs this statement up. However the no-touch throw isnt some mystical gibberwocky, you can watch footballers do it most weekends.
    If someones swinging at you or charging you full power, with a real lack of balance and control of their own momentum, you can force them to fly over you by ducking underneath them, and then rising as they fall over you. Half the time people are aware enough to realise theyre gonna trip over you, so they try to jump or fall on their own accord, a kind of inbuilt reflex action.
    If your fighting someone with a sense of self control in their attack - skilled martial artists in other words - then forget using this technique, its designed for people who are unbalanced already.
    Last edited by Lil Vegemite; 8/18/2005 2:36am at .
  2. cod3r is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 3:21am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Qidori
    Has anybody witnessed the aikido technique in which the Uke is thrown without being touched? That is a valid aikido technique that is said to involve chi, [...]
    Yes, you're probably referring to a form of Irimi-nage. You are also right in that Ki (in Japanese; "Chi" is Chinese and not used in Aikido) is used to describe it, because you are meant to "pull" uke's Ki past your centerline and redirect it back at him. This is not a strike, but takes the uke's posture.


    - cod3r
  3. cod3r is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 3:28am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Yeah, how about a little test to see if he can chi-zap a stranger?
    I'm just as sceptical myself. The uke in question appeared to me to be highly receptive in several instances. I thought at the time, that if you sneaked behind him and shouted "boo" you'd give him a heart attack.

    However the "line" is that you as an untrained person cannot handle the Ki and may be severely injured.

    Which is why I said in my first post, make of iy what you will. I don't think there is anyone here that can prove/disprove it.

    - cod3r
  4. cod3r is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 3:49am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by omega
    You and I have two totally different ideas on what Ki/chi is. Second of all if you 're using the term Ki to describe a Muay Thai instructor; I doubt you're taking authentic Muay Thai.
    First of all. C'mon the MT instructor "Ki" comment was sarcastic, I meant it as a joke. Of course he doesn't do "Ki" stuff or anything!!!! :tongue1:

    Sorry Omega, I have no idea whatsoever what Ki is. I used to think that it is a combination of timing, physics and suggestion, as many people here claim, or other scientifically explainable things.

    However what I saw and heard from the Shihan and other members of the organisation is clearly outside the current body of scientific knowledge.

    The "Ki-blast" I saw myself. Three times. Twice at a large distance, and once at very close range.

    However it is not the only instance of inexplicable events attributed to Ki and the Shihan in my organisation. The Shihan told us that using his Ki he could make it impossible to lift him up. He's not overweight or anything, he is a 70 year old looking fit for his age. Maybe 150 lbs. max, more likely around 140 or so. He said that if he tenses up, one can lift him up, but if he relaxes and uses his Ki, it would be impossible to lift him. Whatever all this means I have no idea. However 140 lbs is 140 lbs tense or not, wool or steel, broken glass or lava. So I can't see how it can be explained scientifically, or even logically.

    Less credibly, I have also heard anecdotal evidence from third parties that he "paralysed" someone. The Shihan merely pointed at that person. That person went down and did not get up for 30 minutes or so. <--- I AM NOT CLAIMING THIS, I JUST HEARD IT ON THE GRAPEVINE. (Just in case)

    To recap:
    1) Ki blast - I saw myself.
    2) The lift thing - I heard the Shihan say it. I did not personally attempt to lift him.
    3) The "paralysation" - someone else told me they saw it.

    I am highly sceptical that any of this was not suggestion and reflex conditioning.

    Point being: there is not a consensus that Ki is within the body of current scientific knowledge. Ranked people seem to believe otherwise.

    - cod3r
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 7:36am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cod3r
    First of all. C'mon the MT instructor "Ki" comment was sarcastic, I meant it as a joke. Of course he doesn't do "Ki" stuff or anything!!!! :tongue1:

    Sorry Omega, I have no idea whatsoever what Ki is. I used to think that it is a combination of timing, physics and suggestion, as many people here claim, or other scientifically explainable things.

    However what I saw and heard from the Shihan and other members of the organisation is clearly outside the current body of scientific knowledge.

    The "Ki-blast" I saw myself. Three times. Twice at a large distance, and once at very close range.

    However it is not the only instance of inexplicable events attributed to Ki and the Shihan in my organisation. The Shihan told us that using his Ki he could make it impossible to lift him up. He's not overweight or anything, he is a 70 year old looking fit for his age. Maybe 150 lbs. max, more likely around 140 or so. He said that if he tenses up, one can lift him up, but if he relaxes and uses his Ki, it would be impossible to lift him. Whatever all this means I have no idea. However 140 lbs is 140 lbs tense or not, wool or steel, broken glass or lava. So I can't see how it can be explained scientifically, or even logically.

    Less credibly, I have also heard anecdotal evidence from third parties that he "paralysed" someone. The Shihan merely pointed at that person. That person went down and did not get up for 30 minutes or so. <--- I AM NOT CLAIMING THIS, I JUST HEARD IT ON THE GRAPEVINE. (Just in case)

    To recap:
    1) Ki blast - I saw myself.
    2) The lift thing - I heard the Shihan say it. I did not personally attempt to lift him.
    3) The "paralysation" - someone else told me they saw it.

    I am highly sceptical that any of this was not suggestion and reflex conditioning.

    Point being: there is not a consensus that Ki is within the body of current scientific knowledge. Ranked people seem to believe otherwise.

    - cod3r
    You know what the problem with you is? you don't know when to run with the joke.....

    Gee like I actually couldn't get the joke "Yeah my MT instructor does Ki I can feel all the way across the room"


    Geez I'm working with amateurs here. Maybe I just don't work well as the straight man anymore.
  6. Grant is offline

    Middleweight

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    May 2004
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    Southampton, England
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    1,172

    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 7:40am

    supporting member
     Style: MT, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Where in the UK is this guy? I'll make the journey with a camera.

    PM me or something.
  7. cod3r is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 8:00am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by omega
    You know what the problem with you is? you don't know when to run with the joke.....

    Gee like I actually couldn't get the joke "Yeah my MT instructor does Ki I can feel all the way across the room"


    Geez I'm working with amateurs here. Maybe I just don't work well as the straight man anymore.

    I was hoping to avoid the all too common newbie reaming by attemting to sound all serious and grown up like.

    In the process my sense of humour got KO'd. (Or perhaps Ki-blasted)

    oops............................. :owneddanc


    - cod3r
  8. Qidori is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2005 2:30pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've witnessed this inability to lift one's body; it isn't even that difficult a technique to do (if one could even call it a technique). There is also a simple trick that involves people unable to bend one's arm, although it is relaxed. These tricks are so simple that you can walk up to the average Joe on the street, explain how they are done, and have HIM do it. They aren't miraculous feats of inner 'energy', they're simple chi tricks, done with just a knowledge of how the body works. It's true that they are difficult to explain (I myself am not entirely sure that they have a scientific explaination), but they are certainly not cause to run around screaming that a 'chi blast' is possible.
  9. cod3r is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2005 3:23am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
    Where in the UK is this guy? I'll make the journey with a camera.

    PM me or something.
    OK, let's run with this.

    (Grant is soundly asleep)
    Grant: ding!
    Shihan: Hello?
    Grant: Me's been told youre capable of teh amazing ki-blast! Let's see it then, right here on camera!
    Shihan: Oh you little... I will Ki-blast you to smithereens! ZAP!
    Grant: Nyah, nothing happened! Impostor!
    Shihan: *sob*

    Grant: what the.... (wakes up) oh time to get up, long drive today.

    (later that day)
    Grant: ding!
    Shihan: Hello?
    Grant: Me's been told youre capable of teh amazing ki-blast! Let's see it then, right here on camera!
    Shihan: Beat it, kid, before I call the police.
    Grant: Er, okay.


    - cod3r
  10. cod3r is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2005 3:28am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Qidori
    I've witnessed this inability to lift one's body; it isn't even that difficult a technique to do (if one could even call it a technique). There is also a simple trick that involves people unable to bend one's arm, although it is relaxed. These tricks are so simple that you can walk up to the average Joe on the street, explain how they are done, and have HIM do it. They aren't miraculous feats of inner 'energy', they're simple chi tricks, done with just a knowledge of how the body works. It's true that they are difficult to explain (I myself am not entirely sure that they have a scientific explaination), but they are certainly not cause to run around screaming that a 'chi blast' is possible.
    Dude, you are teh confused.

    Quote: They aren't miraculous feats of inner 'energy'
    Quote: they're simple chi tricks
    Quote: done with just a knowledge of how the body works
    Quote: It's true that they are difficult to explain (I myself am not entirely sure that they have a scientific explaination)

    Four contradictions in a sentence. 10/10.

    This post makes my head hurt.


    - cod3r

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