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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2005 6:49pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare
    I thought Bart Vale was a shootfighter?

    He wrote a book on shootfighting which I bought. Great book btw.
    Oh young Jedi, much you have to learn. Vale is a kenpoist that does shootfighting. The funny thing is that this is the groundfighting that a lot of kenpoist turn to which is why it's humorous, to those who know, about how kenpo has no groundfighting curriculum.
  2. _Mick_ is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2005 7:55pm


     Style: Hapkido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by feedback
    Jean Silva is a cage fighter who successfully uses capoeira.

    lol really? ill have to check that out. With a name like jean he has to be bad ass
  3. MEGALEF is offline

    Still digging on James Brown

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2005 4:33am


     Style: BJJ & Judo (1k)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found a clip with Jean Silva where he uses some high spinning heel kick that looks really mean. Has he knocked anyone out with that move? That and cartwheel guard passes were the only moves that looked like capoeira to me.

    Chuck Lidell has KEMPO tatooed on one of his arms.
  4. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2005 6:09am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    sorry for the long post

    I wrote some reviews of all the karate/kempo exponents in early UFCs -well, the telivised matches. Iíve extracted the kempo/kenpo ones:


    UFC I 1993

    Zane Fraizer -v- Kevin Rosier

    Frazier is a 4th Dan at Ed Parker's Kempo Karate (again, one of the "American Kempo Karate" family of arts). He is a karate and kickboxing champ. Rosier is a kickboxer with an impressive 66ko record.

    Almost the first strike of the bout is an overhand right from Rosier (i.e. a skillful swing). They are immediately in a clinch and tumble to the ground. Frazier escapes to come back with punches, getting a clinch against the fence and pounding Rosier. Frazier is throwing lots of knees and generally dominating but it's not all one way. There is lots of grappling and the punches become less frequent as both appear tired. Frazier finds enough energy to diengage and bounce about before getting back into the grappling. Rosier at one point uses a side headlock to drag Frazier to the ground but Frazier manages to escape and comes out on top. The two retain standing.

    Now it is Frazier who looks the more tired. Rosier throws a few wild kicks and then there is a brief exchange of punches. Frazier appears too tired to defend and collapses near the fence -Rosier delivers a repeated hammerfists and punches to the back of Frazier's head before a stomping kick to the face of the now defences Frazier. Towel comes in...

    Footnote. That fight was actually quite close. Rosier seemed to win more on endurance than skill although that's not to rubbish him. He was demolished by Savateur/Muay Thai champion Gerard Gordeau in great style shortly after -his demise mirroring Frazier's up against the fence being stomped. Of note, Gordeau used low Thai kicks to great effect to set up his assault. Gordeau was quickly defeated by Royce gracie in the finals.

    -------------------------------

    UFC II, 1994

    Johnny Rhodes -v- Fred Ettish
    Rhodes was a Shorin-ji Ryu Karate blackbelt but ditched his karate approach for raw streetfighting during an unimpressive battle with David Levicki (Wing Chun), which Rhodes eventually won (despite both being 'stand-up' artists, it mostly took place on the ground). Ettish was a 5th Dan in Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kempo (a Japanese/Okinawan hybrid) -basically Traditional Karate.

    Both these brands of Karate hail back to the Shoalin Temple -"Shorin" being Japanese for Shaolin and "ji" being temple. But although both competitors where described as "Karate", Rhodes was better considered a "kickboxing influenced streetfighter" whereas Ettish was very much more "traditional" Karate.

    Before we go any further, it is important to appreciate that this infamous bout has often been cited as the death of trational (read mainstream) martial arts in UFC, and Ettish has come in for a lot of stick. But he stood in at a moment's notice and deserves bucket loads of respect for getting in there. We should not be party to Ettish-bashing. But if we can keep an objective mindset, we can learn lots about the applicability of mainstream Karate in MMA.

    The two initially circled eachother. Ettish adopted the typical Karate guard of lead hand up, rear hand low at waist. Rhodes appears more like a sloppy boxer. Ettish throws some low kicks with his lead leg -most miss. One is a lead hook kick to the knee -falls short. Then Rhodes fires off a straight right (boxing style) which hits Ettish in the face. Ettish covers up, turns away and runs. Rhodes follows and and after a brief scuffle Ettish finds himself pushed/knocked to the floor. Rhodes, probably remembering his fight with Levicki stays back -Ettish doesn't seem to want to get up, preffering to scoot around on his bum throwing kicks in Rhode's general direction every time he approaches. Ettish looks like he gets a scissor lock takedown on Rhodes legs but to no effect. Rhodes dives in with a punch and then starts pounding Ettish who turns away onto his belly (getting hit in the head) and then adopts the fetal position. Ettish won't rejoin Rhodes in stand-up so Rhodes continues pounding him. Eventually Ettish's corner throw in the towel.

    _________________________
    UFC III 1994.

    Keith Hackney -v- Emmanuel Yarbrough
    Hackney was a 2nd Dan at American Kempo Karate -an art which can't seem to decide whether it is kung fu or karate. He was also an amateur boxer so not a 'pure' exponent either way. Yarbrough was a gigantic 6'8" 616lb Sumo wrestler.

    The first strike of the fight was a wild palm smash from Hackney which landed cleanly on Yarbrough's left temple/eye area -Yarbrough is floored but the fight quickly goes back to standing. Yarbrough is chasing Hackney around the octagon. Hackney is taking pot shots to keep him at bay -mostly lead side kicks to Yarbrough's hips -Yarbrough catches one but is too slow and Hackney jumps in with punches -Yarbrough falls to the floor and Hackney follows still hitting him. It appears that Yarbrough is too cumbersome to cover up and taps (submits).

    Hackney then dropped out of the show claiming injury.

    ______________________
    UFC IV 1994.

    Kieth Hackney -v- Joe Son
    Hackney, previously described as a "American Kempo Karate" fighter is now going under the "White Tiger Kenpo Karate" banner. Again it is in truth a mix of Karate and Kung Fu. Remember that Hackney has a respectable amateur boxing record of 12 wins , 11 by KO also. Joe Son is a preacher-come-martial warrior with blackbelts in Tae Kwon Do and Judo, and inventor of the modestly named "Josondo". He is only 5'4" but 236lb.

    Hackney throws a few kicks, including a nice sweep which seems to have some effect. Son retreats but Hackney chases with kicks and punches, none of which seem to do much -Son suddenly switches and grapples the over extended Hackney. Son wrestles him to the ground and acheives a dominant side-control position. Son gets Hackney into a guillotine and then stands up, Hackney still in there. Up against the fence, Hackney manages to fire off several punches to Son's groin. Slowly Son relexes his grip and Hackney gets Son into a side control (back on the ground). It is not clear whether Hackney has Son in a Larynx crush choke but Son taps out.

    Keith Hackney -v- Royce Gracie
    Gracie shoots in but Hackney sprawls. As the fight goes to clinch Hackney uses the fence to maintain standing and gets some good punches in but generally Gracie is dominant. Gracie gets in some knees to Hackney's face. Gracie throws guard (jumps into a guard pulling Hackney down on top) and then, after a struggle, gets Hackney in an arm bar to win (Hackney submits).

    For what it's worth, Hackney managed to remain upright for longer than most against a Gracie.
    Last edited by Fantasy Warrior; 3/21/2005 8:03am at . Reason: error
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  5. Gringo Grande is offline
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    Ninjer Pile on Me! Hurr!

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2005 6:49am

    supporting member
     Style: Bad KB, Worse MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just for the record it was Royce not Renzo in UFC 1.

    Gringo Grande
    MMA Record vs Llamas 0-1-0
    (The Llama bit my junk but the ref didn't see it).
  6. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2005 7:40am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, typoÖ. Iíll fix it.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  7. Rashomon is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2005 9:21pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Uh Joe Son didn't tap from some kind of choke or jaw crank...he tapped from Hackney hitting him repeatedly in the nutsack about 3 or 4 times. Groin shots were legal in the early UFC's but you were fined for each shot...hence during that match BJM shouting, "That's $500", etc as Hackney played speedbag with Joe Son's balls." -- Gringo Grande

    Jo Son did not tap from nut shots. He tapped from some sort of hand choke on the throat - probably cutting off both juggulars (sp?).
  8. Knightmare is offline

    DO NOT LISTEN TO ME

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2005 9:29pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rashomon
    "Uh Joe Son didn't tap from some kind of choke or jaw crank...he tapped from Hackney hitting him repeatedly in the nutsack about 3 or 4 times. Groin shots were legal in the early UFC's but you were fined for each shot...hence during that match BJM shouting, "That's $500", etc as Hackney played speedbag with Joe Son's balls." -- Gringo Grande

    Jo Son did not tap from nut shots. He tapped from some sort of hand choke on the throat - probably cutting off both juggulars (sp?).
    Yeah he didnt tap from the nut shots.

    Rent UFC 4 Gringo and stop going by contorted stories on Sherdog.
  9. justA black guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2005 1:26am


     Style: shido/ streetfighting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by yasuri
    OK, I made the mistake of bringing up something from memory that was totally wrong and sidetracking the thread on Ed Parker. Here's the correction.

    I had thought Gary Goodrich was an American Kenpo guy making a presence in an early UFC fight. I just got out the UFC Hits 1 to correct things.

    Yes, the fight I was thinking of was Gary Goodrich taking out Paul Herrara.
    Bingo! Thank you! I was trying to tell my friend that Tekken's Paul Phenix was model off a UFC fighter. Is that the guy that did the flip kick?
  10. Strong Machine is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/24/2005 10:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Pro-Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I recall correctly the first MMA match Tito Ortiz ever had was in the UFC vs a Kempo guy named Wes Albritton.I remember they described Tito as a wrestler/boxer (no ****...a boxer) an they said he trained with Tank.He had dyed hair and looked crazy pumped.Then Wes came out with the obligatory mullet and that confident look on his face that only guys who don't know what it feels like to get hit full force by a real fighter have.I was scared for him.
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