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  1. Rob Kahn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 9:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Royce Gracie Black Belt

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeyassor
    It's still a complete mindfuck to me why anyone would not want Rob to check on this guy's credentials or would criticize him for doing do, as some above posters have mentioned.

    Here's an interesting and subtle point about Bullshido: IT'S ABOUT EXPOSING FRAUD IN THE MARTIAL ARTS.

    This is an excellent example of fraud. While some of you might whine that this is a "resume vetting function", a black belt in BJJ still means quite a bit. In the still fairly small BJJ community, verifying one's BJJ historyis not difficult, and Rob, a legit BJJ black belt, probably would have heard of him before. The statement about being only the second "American" BJJ blackbelt is absurd.

    If this guy is able to hold himself out to the world as a BJJ BB without having the legitimate skill level, Rob's blackbelt, which I'm sure he worked extremely hard for for a long time, is made less valuable by such fraudsters.

    Rob is trying to protect his investment in his BB. While to you a BJJ BB might not mean anything, it certainly means a hell of a lot to Rob and a lot of BJJ practitioners. This guy has taken the respect and goodwill that legitimate BJJ blackbelts have, through years of sweat, earned for themselves in the ring and is trying to appropriate it for himself. In short, he's stealing something from Rob and BJJ practitioners everywhere.

    More to the point, this should be the exact point of Bullshido. The reason TMA's are in the pathetic state they're in right now is exactly because no one performed the "resume vetting" function you deride now.

    Instead of bitching about exposing a potential fraudster, why dont you do something to clean up the art you practice and shut up?

    EDIT: Also, because some people seemed to have missed it, he listed his "Title" as an INSTRUCTOR of MMA.

    terrific post
  2. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 10:57pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a new beginner to BJJ (about a month) I do find it rather disgusting that some slob declared that he had a black belt in it when it is most likely that I have more BJJ experience than him. However, to anyone from a 3rd party perspective (no martial arts training - the laymen) your actions and strong passion in rooting out this man's fraud may seem overzealous and overreacting.

    I only say this because look at the world today. We have had people like David Koresh running around claiming he's Jesus. We have wackos who dress up in question mark blazers on late nite TV commercials claiming their book has all the answers to getting all these monies from the government. We have people all over the world claiming that they are faithful to their spouse when theyre sleeping with their secretaries.

    People make claims that are unfounded. Yes they hurt. Yes they encourage others to make the same unfounded claims. Will it ever stop? No. Is BJJ immune? No. In fact I'm rather relieved at signs of bullshido in BJJ - that means that BJJ is truly worth something, to the point where ppl will say anything to gain that sort of ranking status. Will it get to the point where so many BJJ Bullshidoers make it into the next TKD? Not while the Gracies and Machados carry on their proud traditions. Not while MMA and full contact sports present the true realities of fighting and the value of BJJ. And definitely not while BULLSHIDO.NET blazes the internet.

    Excelsior!
  3. dakotajudo is offline
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    Judo Instructor

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 10:58pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyDaHedgehog
    But then the fighters that are trained by them get beaten up in the ring, right? That should keep people away from them.
    So should some well-intentioned naive schmuck get his ass handed to him because his first instructor misrepresented himself? In your scenario, somebody gets hurt first.

    I do get the impression he wants to market himself as an instructor, which really isn't good for any of us. Look at baseball - government will step in to regulate a community that doesn't regulate itself.

    So yeah, he should be exposed, if he's truly a fraud.

    I think, though, an email first to Miletich may have been more appropriate - he does claim to have chosen U of I because he'd trained there (Miletich Fighting Systems) several times, and they're only about an hour away. Kind of their back yard. Since he's claiming to be a MMA instructor, they might have somtheing to lose if he, through negligent coaching, get's somebody fucked up.
  4. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 11:15pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    So should some well-intentioned naive schmuck get his ass handed to him because his first instructor misrepresented himself? In your scenario, somebody gets hurt first.

    I do get the impression he wants to market himself as an instructor, which really isn't good for any of us. Look at baseball - government will step in to regulate a community that doesn't regulate itself.

    So yeah, he should be exposed, if he's truly a fraud.
    I meant that in boxing, the problem would correct itself whereas in many bullshido schools it doesn't. A boxing gym can't claim that their style of boxing is too deadly to be tested against other gyms in competition; if they did, they would be laughed at. In that sense, the boxing world (at least in theory) is self policing, and doesn't need anyone debunking bad coaches. It would suck for the guys who have to get beaten up, though.

    How do these bullshit coaches end up working out? How do they end up surviving if their fighters keep losing?

    EDIT: This is similar to my argument for why BJJ is bullshido-resistant. There is a community of people who are more than qualified and willing (like Rob Kahn) to check their claims, and challenge them if necessary.
    Last edited by IzzyDaHedgehog; 3/18/2005 11:19pm at .
    sudo make me a sandwich!
  5. jaychiu is offline

    Easily Distracted by Food.

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 11:22pm

    supporting member
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem here is that everyone has labeled him a fraud without anyone having verified his credentials yet. Yes, it does look fishy but an investigation is needed, which Rob is doing with his e-mail, before all these accusations and comments are made - because if he turns out to be legit it really makes the site look bad and childish and hurts Bullshido's credibility.

    ---

    I don't think BJJ will go full blown Bullshido or McDojo as much as you'll have the occasional unqualified person teaching it, just like you have "bad" boxing coaches out there.

    These arts will be always be based on performance and the "You didn't follow my instructions" and "you need to train harder" excuses is only going to fly for so long before people wise up.

    This is different than TMA/TKD places which can survive forever based on the "too deadly" principle - because the theories put forth will never be tested.
  6. Rob Kahn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 11:41pm

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     Style: Royce Gracie Black Belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The art of Gracie jiu jitsu is still small and growing in this country. there are only a very small number of americans who got their black belt from the gacie family as he claims. he didnt say "belt belt in BJJ" he said Blackbelt from the gracie family. Royce,Relson,ralph,renzo,ceasar,rodrigo, royler,carlson, and the rest of the family, due to the little time BJJ has been in the US, made only a dozen or two black belts. I dont think its possible that I would not, at some time, have heard his name mention somewhere.
  7. bushi51 is offline
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    Host-Personal Defense TV

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 11:55pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rob,

    Glad to see you still prowling Bullshido.net.

    Happy Witch Hunting

    -Tush Hog ( JJGear )
  8. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2005 1:12am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden
    Someone on MMA.tv had a great point. Where in eastern Kentucky did this guy learn BJJ from a Gracie? Anyone know of any academies of that level out there? There is a school run by a blue belt in Paducah associated with Royce Gracie.
    As far as I know, the only relatively prominent BJJ Academy in that part of Kentucky is Four Seasons in Lexington. Transylvania is in Lexington, so he could have taken classes with those guys. Their BJJ instructor was only a Brown Belt last time I checked, though. Update: Four Seasons has no record of giving this guy any rank increases in BJJ.

    There are several more BJJ schools in Kentucky, but most of them are in the Western half. The only Black Belts I know of that are close to Kentucky are both in Indiana. One is in Evansville, the other is in Terre Haute.

    This guy could have started taking BJJ in Lexington and continued at Vandy. I believe there are some decent schools in and around the Nasvhille area.

    HOWEVER, his comment about being one of two GJJ Black Belts in the US makes his entire story questionable.

    Also, his MMA story is pretty suspect. Sherdog is pretty meticulous about keeping up professional fight records, and it would be challenging, to say the least, to find conclusive evidence of any amateur mma involvement.

    The newbie calls bullshido.
    Last edited by Cassius; 3/19/2005 1:38pm at .
  9. Kail is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2005 1:19am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Other than the Lexington area BJJ there is Knoxville, TN which has a few BJJ schools located there as well. If someone can get a Gracie name, I can get with my brother and try to find out which schools are affiliated with whom. He's contacted several for training, costs and such and I believe has kept up with who is who in the town lately.
  10. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2005 1:32am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sorry... at what point did we start being sympathetic to frauds around here?
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