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  1. HAPKO3 is offline
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    Marasmos

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 3:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: 10th Planet JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There;'s already a thread about him on mma.tv and he's bound to be getting a lot of emails.
    You say what about my rice?
  2. TylerDurden is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 3:21pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/HapKiDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That thread is where I got the info from myself.
    Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
  3. Beneath Contempt is offline

    Cowardly Henchman

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 3:32pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Of course, I agree that misrepresenting oneself and pretending to have a black belt in bjj is wrong.

    However, I feel that this thread, like so many others before it is wrong in its approach, and highlights some of the confused directions on the bullshido.net site.

    First - the tone of the first page of posts on this topic suggests that the motivation for the growth of this thread is NOT "uncovering fraud", but crass entertainment. I suggest that some of the enlightened mob here saw a picture of a fat man, did a quick google search and started baying like wolves.

    Second, comments like the one about not bothering to be on bjj.org perpetuate the keyboard warrior tendency.

    Third, Rob emails the guy in question. Good. However, surely this could have been done by the original poster before starting the post. Too many threads are started with someone posting a random nugget from the web and inviting others to pour scorn upon the subject. Hypothetically, were someone found to be a fraud, a thread detailing who was found, the contact made and nature of the alleged bullshit uncovered and backed up is much better.

    Fourth, let's say for argument's sake that Mr. X claims to be a bjj blackbelt. Someone here does not believe him and posts in a manner to this thread - others join in and mock said person.

    Let's assume the person turns out to be genuine. The result here will be a bit of humble pie, a few "wow, oh my god"s and a few snide remarks about how bullshido is all about "backing up your ****". That's good - but it's too late for Mr. X who has just been ridiculed by a bunch of strangers who don't know him from Yogi Bear.

    Mr. X isn't going to hunt the accuser down and kick the **** out of him, and what sort of apology could the accuser make? "Sorry Mr X, being a white belt in BJJ myself, I couldn't believe that anyone fat/skinny/ugly/hippy-like/obscure could possibly be any better than myself, I retract my claim even though I have called you a piece of **** and invited others to do the same."

    Finally (and back to Mr. Clark) if he isn't a blackbelt in GJJ - what does that mean?. But is that what bullshido.net has turned into, an online resume vetting facility for the "hobbies/sports" section? It's not bullshit in the sense that he has invented a style, or teaches people to fight like Buffy for big bucks. He said something that was a little lie, he's not dishonouring fallen Navy Seals or anything, and no-one probably outside of the bullshido.net community really cares.
  4. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 3:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beneath Contempt
    Of course, I agree that misrepresenting oneself and pretending to have a black belt in bjj is wrong.

    However, I feel that this thread, like so many others before it is wrong in its approach, and highlights some of the confused directions on the bullshido.net site.

    First - the tone of the first page of posts on this topic suggests that the motivation for the growth of this thread is NOT "uncovering fraud", but crass entertainment. I suggest that some of the enlightened mob here saw a picture of a fat man, did a quick google search and started baying like wolves.

    Second, comments like the one about not bothering to be on bjj.org perpetuate the keyboard warrior tendency.

    Third, Rob emails the guy in question. Good. However, surely this could have been done by the original poster before starting the post. Too many threads are started with someone posting a random nugget from the web and inviting others to pour scorn upon the subject. Hypothetically, were someone found to be a fraud, a thread detailing who was found, the contact made and nature of the alleged bullshit uncovered and backed up is much better.

    Fourth, let's say for argument's sake that Mr. X claims to be a bjj blackbelt. Someone here does not believe him and posts in a manner to this thread - others join in and mock said person.

    Let's assume the person turns out to be genuine. The result here will be a bit of humble pie, a few "wow, oh my god"s and a few snide remarks about how bullshido is all about "backing up your ****". That's good - but it's too late for Mr. X who has just been ridiculed by a bunch of strangers who don't know him from Yogi Bear.

    Mr. X isn't going to hunt the accuser down and kick the **** out of him, and what sort of apology could the accuser make? "Sorry Mr X, being a white belt in BJJ myself, I couldn't believe that anyone fat/skinny/ugly/hippy-like/obscure could possibly be any better than myself, I retract my claim even though I have called you a piece of **** and invited others to do the same."

    Finally (and back to Mr. Clark) if he isn't a blackbelt in GJJ - what does that mean?. But is that what bullshido.net has turned into, an online resume vetting facility for the "hobbies/sports" section? It's not bullshit in the sense that he has invented a style, or teaches people to fight like Buffy for big bucks. He said something that was a little lie, he's not dishonouring fallen Navy Seals or anything, and no-one probably outside of the bullshido.net community really cares.

    There is a possiblity of fraud and you suggest that a site dedicated to exposing fraud do nothing ?
  5. Rob Kahn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 3:43pm

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     Style: Royce Gracie Black Belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    this world of GJJ is way to small to have not heard of an american BB from a gracie family member.
  6. HAPKO3 is offline
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    Marasmos

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 3:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: 10th Planet JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    There is a possiblity of fraud and you suggest that a site dedicated to exposing fraud do nothing ?
    Simple as that.

    Exposing fraud in the martial arts is the stated goal of this site. Lying about your bjj ranking constitutes fraud. Thus, the population of Bullshido should do something about it.

    That's all there is to it.
    You say what about my rice?
  7. afronaut is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 3:57pm

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     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beneath Contempt
    However, I feel that this thread, like so many others before it is wrong in its approach, and highlights some of the confused directions on the bullshido.net site.
    I think it is exactly the right direction. The primacy of proof, honesty and a sense of fucking humor is what separates Bullshido from the fifty other message boards on MA.

    First - the tone of the first page of posts on this topic suggests that the motivation for the growth of this thread is NOT "uncovering fraud", but crass entertainment.
    It can be two things.

    I suggest that some of the enlightened mob here saw a picture of a fat man, did a quick google search and started baying like wolves.
    Some, yeah sure. But being fat is a huge warning sign that the person making the claim is not a highly-trained athlete, like a BJJ BB. It's not a 100% accruate measure, but it's a pretty good one.

    Second, comments like the one about not bothering to be on bjj.org perpetuate the keyboard warrior tendency.
    Addressed in my post above. Just because you are looking in a DoD database, or Navy records, old newspapers, etc. for someone's bona fides, that doesn't mean that electronic domain is the crucible where their worth or mettle is determined. It's just were the information is.

    Third, Rob emails the guy in question. Good. However, surely this could have been done by the original poster before starting the post. Too many threads are started with someone posting a random nugget from the web and inviting others to pour scorn upon the subject. Hypothetically, were someone found to be a fraud, a thread detailing who was found, the contact made and nature of the alleged bullshit uncovered and backed up is much better.
    I agree. But Bullshido has thousands of members and trying to get Internet weirdos to toe the same line is like trying to get cats to walk in a parade.

    Let's assume the person turns out to be genuine ... it's too late for Mr. X who has just been ridiculed by a bunch of strangers who don't know him from Yogi Bear.

    Mr. X isn't going to hunt the accuser down and kick the **** out of him, and what sort of apology could the accuser make? "Sorry Mr X, being a white belt in BJJ myself, I couldn't believe that anyone fat/skinny/ugly/hippy-like/obscure could possibly be any better than myself, I retract my claim even though I have called you a piece of **** and invited others to do the same."
    Yes.

    Finally (and back to Mr. Clark) if he isn't a blackbelt in GJJ - what does that mean?. But is that what bullshido.net has turned into, an online resume vetting facility for the "hobbies/sports" section?
    Sure. In part. What if this kind of thing was possible decades ago, when karate and kung fu landed in California and New York? Would there be so much McDojoism and Bullshido?
    It's not bullshit in the sense that he has invented a style, or teaches people to fight like Buffy for big bucks.
    If you lie, it's bullshit. There's no non-fat bullshit.

    He said something that was a little lie, he's not dishonouring fallen Navy Seals or anything,
    No one said he was.
    and no-one probably outside of the bullshido.net community really cares.
    You've been doing MA longer than I have. Hadn't you realized that this is always true in any matter involving martial arts?
    I dork harder than any of you can imagine.

    - Hedgehoney
  8. TylerDurden is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 4:06pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/HapKiDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Given the ridiculous nature of his claims, the black belt aside, of being an undefeated MMA competitor and one of two GJJ black belts, I did some checking. I did not just post this here, I searched every resource I could think of to find ANY evidence to back up his claims. There was none. So no I don't think there is any chance of this being real. And it had less to do with his appearance than with the complete lack of any proof to back up his claims. So I brought it here, so Bullshido can do what it does. I brought it here so people more experienced and qualified, like Rob, could give opinion and possible take action.
    Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
  9. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 4:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On Beneath Contempt's 'points':

    1.) The first is irrelevant. Determining the validity of Mr. Clark's credentials is part of the raison d'etre of this site. If there is entertainment value in it, then put it down to people enjoying their 'work'. The point is to find out whether or not this guy is for real. If sarcasm, etc. are involved, doesn't really matter, so long as it does not impede the search.

    2.) I have no idea if bjj.org is a style wide reference or not. I'm not registered on anything online, either, so I don't know why a Bjj'er would be.

    3.) I actually think you have a point here. Generally, an attempt to verify credentials BEFORE thread creation makes sense. However, the other way (bringing it up to the forum prior to contact), allows those with the proper authority and credentials (Rob in this case), to step forward and do the follow up themselves. That, imo, is a valid procedure.

    4.) This happened in the case of ORION SOG, when he first joined here. Within four posts, he had established his bona fides in fine fashion and everyone moved on. A worse case was the Shaolin Do debacle. It is perhaps better to do our homework before the mocking begins.

    5.) What it means if Mr. Clark is LYING about his background, experience is that he is using the reputation of a particular style and family of MA to enhance his own credibility. That detracts from the credibility of that style, and of MA in general. HE needs to know that there are people out there willing to call him on it, if in fact, he is full of it. Look at it like preventative medicine. This would forestall any thoughts of him trying to open a 'non affiliated GJJ dojo' at some time in the future, because he knows that real GJJ BB's are aware of him and his claims.
  10. TylerDurden is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 4:11pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/HapKiDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And if no one but us cares why is there a thread on MMA.tv about this? Why did anyone else even ask about it?
    Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
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