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  1. Jekyll is offline
    Jekyll's Avatar

    .

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On the wrong side of the pond for gong sau
    Posts
    2,084

    Posted On:
    3/17/2005 11:15am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    Huge mistake.

    Huge.

    The first rule in applying the armbar is pressure. You need pressure in several areas so they do not escape completely. More about this in a moment. But lets look at pressure.

    When applying pressure with the armlock, more specifically in an attempted armlock, you need your legs pinning your opponents head to the mat and your knees squeezed together. When you release pressure on either of these two areas you allow an opportunity to escape.

    Now in this particular case if you think some ballistic force against someone face or head is going to cause them to release their grip then you really ought to focus on a more efficient method because if they release from you bouncing your leg on their face they are WEAK.

    Now when I talk about escapes from the armbar I talk about ALL possible methods. I am not talking about one little thing. It could be simply rolling up and stacking you to take pressure off, or maybe releasing a leg and turning over to pass their guard, or to simply pull the elbow back far enough to remove their fulcum.

    In THIS particular case, bouncing your leg on their head to effect a release, you are going to allow them to pull their elbow out. I will explain further. The reason you SQUEEZE your legs together is so they dont come up through the middle. But the reason you SQUEEZE your legs by flexing your hamstring is so that they cannot simply scoot away from you far enough to pull their shoulder and arm underneath them. It is an easy escape and only requires a little space to effect this escape.

    KEY : And this is the escape you use when they do not have their legs flexed. They are not applying pressure to keep you locked close to their hips. And to have any kind of 'bounce' effect you are going to have to straighten your legs. Maybe you straighten them just a little bit and only for a moment - Its enough because all they need is a small window of opportunity without pressure so they can pull their shoulder and their elbow back off the fulcrum.

    Now the strategy isn't a bad one. The idea of 'distracting' someone is viable. I use a chain attack method and positioning. Others might simply backhand to the face. But my overall point is that THIS distraction is weak. It compromises technique and allows opportunity for your opponent to escape. Simply put - don't do it. You need your legs squeezed together and curled. Whatever else you do don't compromise your position by sacrificing fundamental technique for a distraction.
    Thanks. Good answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  2. ORION_SOG is offline

    Amateur Fighter/Instructor

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    46

    Posted On:
    3/17/2005 2:28pm


     Style: Judo/BehriBJJ/Muay/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can pull both arms in to the armbar, keep your lower elbow joint in control of the arm you wish to lock and use the higher hand to pull the other into the lock. this makes room and creates leverage.

    also use your knee on the bicep in the mount to help control the oppsite arm, it gives him room to move in only 1 direction.

    Keep your knees tight and your pressure low on him all the way through the motion.

    You can also adjust your grip. Rather than using hands to pull, Use the crook of your elbow joint. Make sure you use the arm closest to his butt rather than the arm closer to the head, you have more control, and since you shorten the length of leverage to your torso, your back gives you more leverage than his bicep. this along with the foot in his oppisite elbow works exteremly well. and this gives you more leverage when you dont have both feet accross him and cant use the foot in the elbow.

    there is a link to some pics of this in my profile. hope it helps
    Last edited by ORION_SOG; 3/17/2005 2:42pm at .
  3. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    978

    Posted On:
    3/17/2005 8:40pm


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    kidnemo took all of my replies so I leave you with a dirty trick, violently shake the leg over the guys head.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  4. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sunny Hawaii
    Posts
    4,972

    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 1:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PoleFighter
    I've been working on the straight armbar from the mount a lot lately, and I'm having great success with it in sparring (it's easily my strongest sub from the mount). The problem is that my opponents often grab their own sleeves or wrists when I'm sitting on my ass trying to extend their arm. I can usually break that grip by pulling their wrists and grabbing their hand soulbrother ("solid!")style. However, this rarely works against larger guys, especially when I'm fatigued.

    Does anyone have any tips or little tricks to loosen their grip?
    Easy, poke them in the eye.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  5. Sonshu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    168

    Posted On:
    3/18/2005 8:12am


     Style: Cross Traiing/MMA/RBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PoleFighter
    I've been working on the straight armbar from the mount a lot lately, and I'm having great success with it in sparring (it's easily my strongest sub from the mount). The problem is that my opponents often grab their own sleeves or wrists when I'm sitting on my ass trying to extend their arm. I can usually break that grip by pulling their wrists and grabbing their hand soulbrother ("solid!")style. However, this rarely works against larger guys, especially when I'm fatigued.

    Does anyone have any tips or little tricks to loosen their grip?
    Sonshu's top tips for ya!

    Set the armbar up better if someone is a good counter puncher - go for a hammer lock first (amercana or figure 4 arm lock depending on what you call it) people tend to then grab there arm/wrist with the other arm, let em then arm bar the arm that has done the grabbing. Its quick and easy or just finish with figure 4.

    If your aloud to give em a little heel kick in the ribs that makes em let go.

    Sit up and re position the arm bar as this can break the grip on noobs

    Take the armbar at a different angle as people's grip is stronger on a straight arm bar but if you take the arm bar diagnal so you are nearer to the head this makes the grip weaker.

    If its on real tight and hard to explain over net but I will try. say you arm bar the opponents left arm, put your left arm through there arm up to the crook in it. then put your right arm over the other side of the arm and take a catch wrestling type grip. This causes a lot of pain on the wrist and fore arm of the arm being help and causes the grip to be broken, I know its a hard one to explain but you are then able to arm bar them. If I can get a pic up I will.
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