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  1. Gumby is offline

    BJJ Purple Belt

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 12:28am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you were to triangle the leg over the arm you're attempting the lock on, that would be a blatent attempt at a bicep crusher, which is illegal in BJJ- if your opponent tapped, you'd be disqualified.

    If you use it to get the arm, however, with changing your legs from the armbar position you're in, you'll never go wrong with it. Your opponent will let go before he taps, in an effort to relieve the pain, and even if he does tap, technically he'll be tapping to avoid the pain of the armbar and you wont be dqed.
  2. Gumby is offline

    BJJ Purple Belt

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 12:52am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yrkoon, what divisions do you fight in for grapplers quest?

    What area do you train out of/who do you train under?
  3. Strong Machine is offline

    Professional Fighter/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 1:02am

    supporting member
     Style: Pro-Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I shall try to avoid repeating others, but I'll fail as I didn't read most

    In these you have his right arm
    1 if his left wrist is grabbing his wrist wrist, just pull on his right hand
    2 get your right forearm bone into the tender area between his farearm/biceps and palm your right hand over your left forearm.
    Your right hand is over his right forearm.Try to drive his right wrist toward his right shoulder as your pull by leanbing back.
    3
    Another biceps slicer...
    Your left wrist is inside into his biceps.forearm.
    Your left leg comes over his right wrist(your upper calf under the knee is over his wrist.
    figure four your legs, exctend them and pull.
    Actually this is better done reversed, which means your right wrist thru your right leg over his arm.
    4 cross your feet outside his far elbow, use them to pull it toward you extending his arm.
    5
    your right arm is thru... your right hand on left forearm, as your left hand punches his hand to your right,the suddeness breaks his grip(reversible move)
    6 one arm is tru, the other comes over, further down his foearm, it stays, the other goes further over that and so on.... difficult to explain better.
    7
    if he is defending the armbar correctly his right hand is on his left biceps, his left hand is trying to push your knee off his face.
    In this case pull his left hand toward you.
    8 Walk your ass away, then turn in sharply getting your same side knee against his taint.wedge it in there good til there's distance, then jerk your arm out in one explosive move and grab and easy leg sub.

    couple things...
    most guys having trouble breaking grips are not squeezing their legs together hard enough.
    I can curl twice as much in a swinging dumbell curl than in a concentration curl.

    I HATE the common method of getting a foot on his far biceps and extending.
    First off it wont work if he is locdking his arm correctly(as described above) second if he is highly skilled he is baiting you.
    When your leg leaves his chest he can back roll to his knees.Or at least kick his legs so high over his face that he can rock up to a seated and then on knees position.
    OR he can walk his ass away circularly and with a shoulder swivel get to his knees and probably pass your guard when you try the way-too-obvious triangle.
    If you put your face side leg in his biceps you've lost head control and even if you break his grip he canm use his free hand to cover his face and drive your leg away from his head.Often if he is quick he'll jerk out before the arms extended, and again without head control, he can often just sit up.
    In MMA this is all moot.
    Simply wrap his arm with your left arm and punch him in his stomach as hard as you can.He WILL extend his arm.
    Or just lift your leg and drop it on his chest really hard.Use your heel to his sternum if it's allowed.Repeat as needed.
  4. PoleFighter is offline

    Professional Swede

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 4:29am


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another great post. Thanks.
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
  5. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 11:27am

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby
    Yrkoon, what divisions do you fight in for grapplers quest?

    What area do you train out of/who do you train under?

    Im sooo happy you brought up such a painfull subject!

    I won't be competing at this GQ. I seperated a rib 6 weeks ago and just resumed training on Monday...*grumble*

    When I do compete its at middleweight purple/advanced division. I have been with R Cavalcanti in Vegas for about a year and a half. Before that I was training at BHJJC for a few years, but managed to take a couple years off between them. I did Judo prior to all of that.

    Last GQ we fielded 7 guys and got 5 medals. 4 golds and 1 silver. I was pretty happy with our performance. The two guys that lost don't really train with any sort of consistency and was honestly shocked to see them at the competition, since they hadn't trained for weeks beforehand. This GQ we are fielding 5 guys I think. Mostly beginners, as our advanced guys are preparing for RITC, or on the injury list. Im going for support and backup coach as well as use my dirty nasty coaching tactics to leverage any controversial calls~
  6. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 12:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bounce your leg against their face as a distraction technique.

    Lock onto the arm with your elbows, weave at least one arm between theirs and press your chest against their arm, then move your body from the hips, circling against the weakest part of the grip between thumb and finger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  7. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 12:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I always thought that was a lame method. Nuisance only and it creates space for the victim to work.

    If their head is off the ground though it can shake them up though.
  8. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 12:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In judo you're not allowed to strike with any part of the body so the leg can only come up by a fraction of an inch more a vibration then a bounce I suppose.

    Yes, it is just a nuisance tactic but I don't really think you lose anything and if it leads to them pointing their head away it's great. I think it helps with the grip breaking too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  9. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 4:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Bounce your leg against their face as a distraction technique.

    Lock onto the arm with your elbows, weave at least one arm between theirs and press your chest against their arm, then move your body from the hips, circling against the weakest part of the grip between thumb and finger.
    Huge mistake.

    Huge.

    The first rule in applying the armbar is pressure. You need pressure in several areas so they do not escape completely. More about this in a moment. But lets look at pressure.

    When applying pressure with the armlock, more specifically in an attempted armlock, you need your legs pinning your opponents head to the mat and your knees squeezed together. When you release pressure on either of these two areas you allow an opportunity to escape.

    Now in this particular case if you think some ballistic force against someone face or head is going to cause them to release their grip then you really ought to focus on a more efficient method because if they release from you bouncing your leg on their face they are WEAK.

    Now when I talk about escapes from the armbar I talk about ALL possible methods. I am not talking about one little thing. It could be simply rolling up and stacking you to take pressure off, or maybe releasing a leg and turning over to pass their guard, or to simply pull the elbow back far enough to remove their fulcum.

    In THIS particular case, bouncing your leg on their head to effect a release, you are going to allow them to pull their elbow out. I will explain further. The reason you SQUEEZE your legs together is so they dont come up through the middle. But the reason you SQUEEZE your legs by flexing your hamstring is so that they cannot simply scoot away from you far enough to pull their shoulder and arm underneath them. It is an easy escape and only requires a little space to effect this escape.

    KEY : And this is the escape you use when they do not have their legs flexed. They are not applying pressure to keep you locked close to their hips. And to have any kind of 'bounce' effect you are going to have to straighten your legs. Maybe you straighten them just a little bit and only for a moment - Its enough because all they need is a small window of opportunity without pressure so they can pull their shoulder and their elbow back off the fulcrum.

    Now the strategy isn't a bad one. The idea of 'distracting' someone is viable. I use a chain attack method and positioning. Others might simply backhand to the face. But my overall point is that THIS distraction is weak. It compromises technique and allows opportunity for your opponent to escape. Simply put - don't do it. You need your legs squeezed together and curled. Whatever else you do don't compromise your position by sacrificing fundamental technique for a distraction.
  10. PoleFighter is offline

    Professional Swede

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2005 4:40pm


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright, so I tried some of this stuff after class. The foot in crook method worked ok, but I found that it gave my opponent a bit too much room to manuever. Probably something I'll use when I just need that extra bit of leverage. I had more success with the "walking up the arm"-approach, which I found to be very useful when they have a very secure grip, and the position has become stable.

    Thanks everybody.
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
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