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  1. KOREA is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 11:21am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hello everybody.

    I was wondering why there is so much criticism to Tae Kwon Do in this website? I am a practicioner of Tae Kwon Do.
    The art has a lot of benefits. I will admit that in addition to the effective techniques, it does have many kicks that are not too realistic, but aside from those techniques that were designed to push our limits as far as athletic ability is concerned, I do not understand why you must behave in such a way as to insult and degrade an important part of Korean culture.

    Yes it is true.

    Tae Kwon Do is an important part of Korean culture, and it is quite painful to see how some people take time out to degrade such a wonderful contribution from Koreans to the martial arts community.

    Tae Kwon Do has suffered much pain here in the USA. Mainly because of business practices, but that is no reason for you to belittle the fabric of Korean culture just because of the way some TKD guys manage their business.

    Take some of the modern MMA schools. Most charge an arm and a leg for lessons. Now why would they do that when they can charge half the price to teach people life saving skills?

    TKD is very inexpensive, and offers a good workout, and discipline. Now why would you want to criticize that?
  2. KMiller1204 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 11:31am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    www.hanstkd.com

    Problem Solved!
  3. KOREA is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 11:32am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Tae Kwon Do is a true martial art with its roots in ancient Korea. Translated from Korean, Tae Kwon Do means "foot hand way". Its beginnings date back at least to 540 AD to the Hwarang-Do warrior society charged with protecting their country. In fighting, the members of the Hwarang-Do inspired their followers' confidence by punching barehanded through their opponents' wooden armor. They could spin-kick with such height and power that their feet were like swords. But Hwarang-Do was more: members pledged to live an ethical life that recognized the importance of loyalty to country, parents, and the brotherhood of man, and to promote the cause of justice. This is reflected in the modern tenets (shown above) and student's oath."

    SO what is wrong with that?
  4. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 11:53am

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's really not the style, regardless of the impression you may have gotten. It's very likely there are TKD artists in Korea that could use their skills successfully in a fight.

    However, that's not typically the case in the United States, where the art is the #1 choice of McDojos that are out to make money using the martial arts as the means to that end.

    In the United States, TKD is a joke for the most part. Why? Because standards for advancement and mastery are so weak that it's rare that even an instructor who has a high rank, could defend himself against a half-skilled opponent.

    And that's not to mention groundfighting. Real TKD incorporates Hapkido, that while it doesn't focus so much on fighting from the ground, it does help to defend oneself in a situation where your opponent is trying to grapple with you. But many TKD schools do not teach Hapkido, or they teach it for only a small portion of their training. Their focus is on unrealistic point sparring tournaments and board breaking, neither of which allows the art to develop practical use in a real situation.

    TKD in the U.S. is really not something to be proud of. It's primarily a business tool, and until more legitimate practicioners (that can demonstrate their skill against resisting opponents in an open fight competition with limited rules) start speaking out against the commercialization of this aspect of "Korean Culture", the opinions of those that are knowledgeable in the martial arts community, when it comes to TKD, will not change.
  5. Wheels is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 12:10pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Tae Kwon Do is a true martial art with its roots in ancient Korea. Translated from Korean, Tae Kwon Do means "foot hand way". Its beginnings date back at least to 540 AD to the Hwarang-Do warrior society charged with protecting their country. In fighting, the members of the Hwarang-Do inspired their followers' confidence by punching barehanded through their opponents' wooden armor. They could spin-kick with such height and power that their feet were like swords. But Hwarang-Do was more: members pledged to live an ethical life that recognized the importance of loyalty to country, parents, and the brotherhood of man, and to promote the cause of justice. This is reflected in the modern tenets (shown above) and student's oath."

    SO what is wrong with that?

    To answer your question ( just my opinion from my experience ),
    TKD is not practical. It IS better than nothing and you can take SOMETHING from it. Discipline. Stretching, how to throw a punch. Realistically an average man woman or child learning TKD will not be effective in even a self defence situation. The old schoolers you mention with knife kicks and puching through wooden armor etc... come on man, that is MCDojo talk. TKD will not teach my girlfriend to punch through a wet paper bag. However I feel some arts are more practical for self defense for all people and sizes. Anyone can eye gouge use weapons or groin strike so dont use that argument. I got up to my brown in TKD and got my ass kicked trying to use it to DEFEND myself against another my size weight. As soon as we struggled to the ground my TKD was useless. Most women arent raped standing up. Get my drift. There will be a thousand replies to this disecting every statement but this is my opinion and experience and I feel it gives one a false sense of security.
  6. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 12:24pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    EVERYONE who thinks TKD is IMPRACTICAL, INEFFECTIVE and FOOLISH. Take a trip to Korea, specificly Itaewon, look for TKD man named Choi who may still work at the local HighSchool on the Military Base. Tell him how much TKD sucks. Show him how you will kick any TKD guy butt. :)

    I agree that TKD in the US is a joke. I went to my first TKD school in the states. I didn't stay with many dojangs stateside.


    >"Tae Kwon Do is a true martial art with its roots in ancient Korea. Translated from Korean, Tae Kwon Do means "foot hand way". Its beginnings date back at least to 540 AD to the Hwarang-Do warrior society charged with protecting their country. In fighting, the members of the Hwarang-Do inspired their followers' confidence by punching barehanded through their opponents' wooden armor. They could spin-kick with such height and power that their feet were like swords. But Hwarang-Do was more: members pledged to live an ethical life that recognized the importance of loyalty to country, parents, and the brotherhood of man, and to promote the cause of justice. This is reflected in the modern tenets (shown above) and student's oath."


    I can tell you that there is plenty wrong with this. First of TKD comes mainly from SHOTOKAN Karate. I fact the it founder did openly admits. The records of the Hwarang are suspect. Except for the Hwarang DO Societ led by Lee there are very few records that support any of it. Most of the info sited has came about realatively recently.

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  7. Royal Dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 1:35pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "The roots of Tae Kwon Do begin approximately 1300 years ago in what is referred to in the West as Korea (but which natives refer to as "Choson"). This peninsula was split into three kingdoms: Silla, Paekche and Koguryo. The kingdom of Silla (the smallest of the three) conquered Paekche in 660 AD and Koguryo in 668 AD; this was done with the support of the Chinese, who were then driven out in 676. This was the first time that the peninsula was controlled by a single indigenous ruling power"

    Reply]
    One thing I really hate about Tae Kwon Do, is the fact that so many of it's teachers, even high level one's, outright LIE about it's hitory to a GREAT extreame.

    Asia is right, it's Shotokan Katate mixed with some Chinese Kicking. At best it's 60 years old. What we see today was created in the 50's, so 45 years old is more accurate.

    Yes, martial arts have been practiced in Korea probually before Christ, but what is there now came from Japan and has a bit of Chinese mixed into it.

    How can you take an art seriously when such a large number of it's top level teachers out right lie about it's history, to such astranomical perportions?

    The only Tae Kwon Do guy I ever met than can fight crossed VERY heavily in Shito Kan and Judo.

    Maybe it's different in Korea, I don't know. I hope so, but here in the US it's called Takeyur Doh for a reason.
  8. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 2:25pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think point sparring and the Olympics have a lot to do with the McDojo reputation og TKD.

    When taught how to point spar, students are encouraged to use the side guard stance. You advance sideways. This is to protect the legal target area which is a narrow portion of your torso above the belt. (The head is also a target) If you advance sideways it makes this target area more thin. Some instructors even encourage their students to advance turned so that their back and butt are forward - this is very effective in point sparring because almost all of the legal target area is hidden.

    This is not effective in combat. The kidneys and spine are prime targets for kicks. The legs and knees (also not legal in point sparring) are a prime targets for kicks. When one adds grappling into the mix such a side guard stance is extremely impractical. It is easy to shoot in for a one leg takedown when someone's leg is extended.

    Habbits such as this teach TKD students to be vulnerable in combat but effective in point sparring.

    Also, to throw a rear leg attack from the side guard you have to completely turn. You telegraph it with your whole body and it is slow. The solution in TKD is to spin for rear leg attacks. Often times this means turning your back to your opponant.

    Spinning back kicks can be cool. As a finishing kick on a dazed opponant they can do a lot of damage. But they shouldn't be a lead just thrown out randomly like they are used in point sparring. you have to set those up. A grappler can just close the distance and take you down while you have your back turned.

    Anyway, I have yet to see anyone in mixed martial arts competition use a side guard stance. Wrestlers, grapplers, Muay Thai fighters, boxers, in the Tao of JKD - everyone uses a front guard.

    A front stance allows you to keep both arms and both legs within easy range. The reverse punch or cross-punch has a much bigger role in the front guard. Rear leg kicks are common.

    Look at Muay Thai kicks that whip out from the rear leg in the front guard. They whip out using the waist for torque and the pivot is not the generator for the kick. Learn to do those kicks and you will see that they have more velocity and impact than the stable TKD kicks which shoot from an extanded pivot and push through. Often times the TKD kicks will extend your weight beyond your base leg. This makes you vulnerable.

    I could go into this further and I will if anyone wants. I don't have time today. I will just say that extended-pivot kicks are long-range. In
    short-range kicks you don't have room for such a pivot. The extended pivot is a product of the side guard stance.

    What I am saying:::

    Point sparring and Olympic point sparring teach TKD students habbits that undermine their effectiveness in combat.


    my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!
  9. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 2:38pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >I think point sparring and the Olympics have a lot to do with the McDojo reputation og TKD.

    I think you are on to something. TKD first debuted in the Olympics in '88 it seems things have gone downhill from there. I remember going to visit one dojang in OK and on the window it said "Certified to teach Olympic TKD" I was like, WTF is that BS! I went in and fought and these guys COMPLAINED about everything. "He hit me to hard, No you can't grap my lapel throw me off balance and then kick me in the face." Then I got the bombshell, "I went to Kukiwon to train!!!!" I called the guy on his BS becaus he couldn't tell me the genral layout of a place he so recently visited!!!!

    Yes in Korea TKD is VERY different. Some guys like to look pretty but most guys like to kick your teeth in. When I was last there, early 90s, if you were in the changing room and one of the guys changing to work out had on PINK socks then you were in for a fight. (Those who've stayed in Korea for awhile KNOW what PINKS socks signify!!)


    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  10. Nick is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2002 5:56pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can you enlighten us on the Pink Socks thing??
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