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  1. Gypsy Jazz is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2005 1:41am


     Style: Does exercise count?

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I got the mount and now my knee hurts

    Mods move this appropriately, this is inbetween technique and health advice.

    I did a whole lot of free rolling this past Saturday and as always was at a huge weight disadvantage. Just about everyone there was either an expert or a total newbie though. Not being able to stand a chance against the experts I rolled against all reletive newbies and tapped them all multiple times. Go team!

    Last few minutes of the class, and I am rolling with this beheamoth of a 14 year old who is about 6' 3" and 210lbs. Little me being 17, about 5' 9" and 140 have just gotten the mount on him by way of some miracle and decide to grapevine so I can stand a chance. He muscles his way out of the grapevine and I feel a quick shooting pain in my leg right by my knee. It quickly goes away so I decide to keep going for a paintbrush. Long story short we end up in a stale mate because he doesn't know what he's doing and I can't move him. Class ends and as I stand up I feel the (tendon/ligiment I am not great with this anatomy stuff)right below the quad where it meets the knee and connects to the calf on the outside and close to the back of the leg. Not the hamstring, opposite that.

    So here come the questions: I've been icing it, keeping it elevated, trying to keep pressure off of it and will start applying heat and gently massaging tomorrow, any other advice? If it lasts a little while longer I'll give the good doctor a call, but it doesn't hurt too badly and it seems to be getting better already.

    In the future should I not grapevine guys much bigger than me? I thought it would help, but it will end up taking me out of action for what I can guess as a week max. Should I not resist their attempts to break free as much, or would that defeat the purpose of the grapevine all together?

    As always any help is appreciated.
  2. CrimsonTiger is offline
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    RAAAAAAR! Fear the Tiger!

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2005 1:50am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your knees are held together by the cruciates. If any of them are torn or snapped, you could be fucked, and from what I'm told, they don't always hurt a whole lot (but that's all 3rd-hand info).

    Look it up online, check your symptoms/signs and get it checked by a doctor. Even if it doesn't hurt. Eventually your doctor will start telling you what you should and shouldn't look for before you come to him.

    Oh, and anti-inflammatories. Advil/Ibuprofine. Take it, its your friend. Or Aspirin.
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
  3. Sharlintier is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2005 2:26am


     Style: Okinowan Shuri

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonTiger
    Your knees are held together by the cruciates. If any of them are torn or snapped, you could be fucked, and from what I'm told, they don't always hurt a whole lot (but that's all 3rd-hand info).

    Look it up online, check your symptoms/signs and get it checked by a doctor. Even if it doesn't hurt. Eventually your doctor will start telling you what you should and shouldn't look for before you come to him.

    Oh, and anti-inflammatories. Advil/Ibuprofine. Take it, its your friend. Or Aspirin.

    CT is correct on this. Having suffered something that sounds scarily similar I will mention the possiblity here. Your kneecap may have been jarred out of place. If this is what happened you are kind of screwed. You will need Physical Therepy to "pull" it back into place. The longer you wait to see the doctor the more damage is being done even if it doesn't really hurt because the knee cap is actually causing more damage that is causing the pain. This happens to some athelets that have a normal condition called informally floating kneecaps or here it's called "grasshopper" knees. Both my brother and I have it, him so bad on his cross country and track teams his nick name was grasshopper.

    Depending on how badly you hurt it the treatment may include wearing a brace that hold the knee cap in place. (believe me those suck, heat rashes in the dead of winter... 30 below outside and you have a heat rash from mid thigh to mid calf). But they work and keep the damage from being perm.

    I would go see a doc right away, maybe get it x-rayed and taken care of right away.

    I am not saying this is what happened to you, just mentioning it as a possiblity. If you do have floating kneecaps you might want to consider wearing some sort of brace when you do any MA. Mine isn't bad enough to make that necessary, I just got clipped in a game and my knee cap made a break for it. My brother still runs in maratons from time to time and will wear those elastic knee braces just in case.

    Just some food for thought.
  4. Gypsy Jazz is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2005 12:42am


     Style: Does exercise count?

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I gave a call over to my doctor. He said that from what I had described it is most likely a minor ligiment bruise or strain. If it's not all better by this thursday I am supposed to go in for a look, otherwise just the standard treatment.

    So now that I most have my injury of sorts under control, could anyone offer up some advice on grapevining so I don't end up repeating the same mistake?
  5. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2005 1:12am

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GO SEE A DOCTOR.... if the pain persists. Trust me as I speak from experience.

    Grapevining a bigger opponent is not a problem and I do it all the time. It was just one of those things and you were unlucky. Let yourself heal and keep training.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  6. En is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/02/2005 12:19am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Grapevining doesn't really work if your opponent knows the quick escape. I've stopped doing it altogether as it really doesn't help that much. Can't armbar the dude if I'm grapevining, the dude can't sweep me, but I can't do much to him except like... sleeve choke. Plus, if he escapes I'm so low on him that I'm bound to just get Upa'ed.
  7. En is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/02/2005 12:21am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PS: Easy escape from grapevine:

    Kick your legs out and away and then bring them back in. (hard to describe in words, but works really well)
  8. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2005 1:43am

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsy Jazz
    I gave a call over to my doctor. He said that from what I had described it is most likely a minor ligiment bruise or strain. If it's not all better by this thursday I am supposed to go in for a look, otherwise just the standard treatment.

    So now that I most have my injury of sorts under control, could anyone offer up some advice on grapevining so I don't end up repeating the same mistake?
    If your doctor is diagnosing you over the phone...well, it wouldn't fill me with confidence. Get an exam. Now.

    I made the mistake of downplaying my knee injuries (which didn't hurt much, and I was able to control with anti inflammatories). My family doctor told me the same things yours did.

    After my second injury in six months, I went to a sports medicine specialist. Turns out that my ACL was gone (from a previous injury 12 years ago), my MCL is now gone, and my PCL is partially gone. Had I gone to see this guy after my first injury, I would've been able to control my knee with a brace. Now I need surgery, I've been unable to spar or train meaningfully for three months, and I'm looking at another 9months before I'm recovered.

    Stop worrying about the grapevine, and make DAMN sure all you have is a ligament bruise.
  9. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2005 2:08am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't trust your doctor; talk to a physiotherapist.
  10. Kidnemo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2005 12:15pm


     Style: bjj and hitting stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with the others about getting it checked out.

    As far as grapevining guys bigger than me, I normally don't bother with it, as, atleast in my experience they can power out of it without too much trouble. Not to mention when they are powering out of it, it tends to not be very comfortable.

    On average most of the people I roll with are 20-30 pounds heavier than me, so I favor getting a high/tight mount instead, or if they are stopping me from moving up their body, I bring my feet together up near their butt, which still offers a good degree of control.
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