McDojo or Not?

**The Iron Man** · Posted On: 2/24/2005 11:26pm

http://www.isdc.net
After two years of training here I am a blue belt or the first rank of being considered an advancted student. We learn 6 diffrent martial arts, 8 if you go to two extra classes. There are 4 instructors, two for our base martial arts, one for judo and one for tai chi. We do sparring, grappaling, and free sparring. Most of our work is done in small groups sparring or learning from the teachers or a higher ranked student some times the teacher will show a technique or set of techniques and we all line up and preform it about 10 times or untill we show we can do it. Our students almsot always do well in tournaments. We only have one black belt under 23 he's 17 and most are 30 or older. The only things I dont like are that belt tests have fee's, and you have to learn 1 to 2 forms per rank before you can advance. Check out the site and tell me what you think.

**Thaiboxerken** · Posted On: 2/24/2005 11:27pm

Looks like they teach good stuff, but a McDojo can teach good stuff.

**Jay Zarella** · Posted On: 2/25/2005 12:12am

Originally Posted by The Iron Man

http://www.isdc.net
After two years of training here I am a blue belt or the first rank of being considered an advancted student. We learn 6 diffrent martial arts, 8 if you go to two extra classes. There are 4 instructors, two for our base martial arts, one for judo and one for tai chi. We do sparring, grappaling, and free sparring. Most of our work is done in small groups sparring or learning from the teachers or a higher ranked student some times the teacher will show a technique or set of techniques and we all line up and preform it about 10 times or untill we show we can do it. Our students almsot always do well in tournaments. We only have one black belt under 23 he's 17 and most are 30 or older. The only things I dont like are that belt tests have fee's, and you have to learn 1 to 2 forms per rank before you can advance. Check out the site and tell me what you think.

Looks ok to me, they invite you to sit in on classes as well.

**Blue Collar** · Posted On: 2/25/2005 9:41am

"We have continuously represented the Villari System since 1985"

That is a resounding YES. Nice facility... but still a McDojo.

**Jay Zarella** · Posted On: 2/25/2005 3:00pm

Originally Posted by Blue Collar

"We have continuously represented the Villari System since 1985"

That is a resounding YES. Nice facility... but still a McDojo.

Well the villari system is bs imho, however that not all they teach there. Im still wavering on this one and I noticed this thread hasnt recieved many replies, so I think many are of the same opinion.

still nice catch on the 'Villari system'

**octopic** · Posted On: 2/26/2005 7:49am

Originally Posted by Jay Zarella

Well the villari system is bs imho, however that not all they teach there. Im still wavering on this one and I noticed this thread hasnt recieved many replies, so I think many are of the same opinion.

still nice catch on the 'Villari system'

I'm curious as to why you think the Villari system is bs. Do you not like the Kajukenbo, or the touch of Kung Fu? The organization itself has been through a lot over the years and is now a very different entity than it once was.

In the early 90's more than half of the Villari schools left the organization when Masters Mattera and Demasco broke off to start United Studios of Self Defense (USSD). To give an idea of what schools broke off, let me tell you the a little annecdote. There was a Villari school in my town. There was also one in the next town over. The one in my town did not have a good reputation, classic McDojo stuff like contracts mixed with poor instruction. The one in the next town over had a great reputation, no long term contracts and awesome instructors. The one in my town went USSD, and the one in the next town stayed Villari. This isn't to say that there aren't still some not so great schools in the Villari org, and it isn't to say that there aren't some great schools in the USSD org. In general the schools that stayed with Villari tended to be the more senior instructors, a lot of them being people who had trained with GM Villari when he had his school up in Boston. The organization is now a lot more informal than it once was, and there is a lot less pressure to expand. Prior to the USSD split, at your black belt test, they would pressure you to open up your own school, but things like that don't happen anymore. Actually, let's put the Villari or through the McDojo test using the criteria listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDojo.

1) Binding contracts when you join, with high up front training fees, high testing fees and the use of collection agencies to collect any remaining fees if a student quits before the contract term is up.

No binding contracts at most Villari schools now. Training fees tend to be normal for the areas they're run in. Testing fees are a little high for black belt tests. Collection agencies are not used.

2) Promises of obtaining a black belt within a given timeframe.

I've never heard of this being done (in any of the schools that remained after the split). When asked, people are given the statistic that it normally takes 5-6 years to get to 1st degree, but they're always told that some people take more time, and some people take less (though I've only seen one person take less and that person had a ton of training before they showed up).

3) Large numbers of very young (i.e. 6 or 7 year old) black belts.

Doesn't happen. General rule in the org is no BB's under 14. We can argue if the age should be 12, 14, 16, or 18, but there certainly are no child BB's in the org.

4) Flashy advertising, laden with boasts about the art's effectiveness.

Most Villari schools do no advertising anymore, they exist on word of mouth. Are there marketing slicks that some schools hand out to potential students? Sure, but they don't market like a lot of the other schools out there.

5) Questionable credentials of instructor:
a) Not from a known school or ryū
b) The instructor looks to be about 30, but claims a title of shihan, sōke, hanshi, hachidan, or other designation of senior status

If nothing else, on can say that the Villari school is known, so there goes that point. I have heard rumors of there being one pretty young master in the org, but every master I've ever interacted with has been with the org for more than 20 years (and is well over 30).

Unfortunately for the Villari haters out there, it looks like the Villari org does not fit the criteria of a McDojo.

**punchingdummy** · Posted On: 2/26/2005 7:54am

What? The BS meter is starting to move...

Recent Awards Include

"Master Instructor of the Year" (Karate)
Chris Mechling
From the World Karate Union Hall of Fame 2004

"Leadership Award" Chris Mechling
From the World Head of Families Council (Martial Arts Founders) 2003

"Master Instructor of the Year" (Jiu Jitsu)
Nick Mechling
From the World Head of Families Council (Martial Arts Founders) 2003

"Excellence in Teaching Muay Thai"
Nick & Chris Mechling
From the Action International Magazine 2003

"Outstanding Contribution to the Martial Arts"
Chris Mechling
From the World Head of Families Council (Martial Arts Founders) 2002

Master Instructors 2002 Nick & Chris Mechling
at the Gathering of the Masters (England)

"Jiu Jitsu Instructor of the Year" Nick Mechling
WKU Hall of Fame (2002)

"International Martial Artist of the Year"
Nick & Chris Mechling
International Association of Martial Artists (2002)

"Best International Martial Arts School"
Nick & Chris Mechling
From the World Head of Families Council (Martial Arts Founders) 2001

Instructor of the Year" Chris Mechling
International Association of Martial Artists (2001)

"International Instructor of the Year" Nick Mechling

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 2/26/2005 8:39am

Yeah, I could've done without the padded resume. . .The world head of family council needs a web designer real bad...

While the WKU is hosted by tripod

It looks like an OK place - nice gym, mixed approach, eclectic curriculum, realistic BB timeframe, OK handling of kids in the school - they're welcome but it doesn't look like a Deadly Dragon Day Care and the disadvantages of kids are acknowledged, to paraphrase, "Children can learn skills that will serve them their entire lives if they continue to practice"

Their website doesn't offer much as to their finacial practices, but as has already been mentioned, Villari was one of "those schools" . . .

On the whole, I don't think time there would be wasted, but as allways, you can't tell too much from just a website unless a school is one extreme or the other...

**monkeykicker** · Posted On: 2/10/2006 12:05pm

The poway master's don't look like a mc dojo to me.

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 2/10/2006 12:46pm

Looks like a nice place to train, although you never know till you actually go there. My only complaint is a personal one. I HATE mirrors! It really screws me up because I can't stop watching myself.