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  1. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 2:27am


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Millbury White Tiger Villari Ke_po Dojo... BS

    Okay, so I searched and searched Villari, White Tiger Ke_po, etc for a few days and am pretty sure this dojo or dude has been talked about in an great detail (except for a member of a list of Kempo-dudes in a thread linked from a thread linked from a thread on Ke_po from 2 years ago)

    First off, lemme give you all the website.
    http://www.millburywhitetigers.com/History/history.html

    Okay, here goes. I heard of this place about a week ago from a couple of guys from my new judo dojo and how they thought it was the funniest **** they'd seen in a while. One, a lurker here I think, actually told me to post it here for all to see.

    History:
    We all pretty much know AK Histories are the most conveluted pieces of trash out there (and a wonder in marketing know-how) and I won't touch upon most of it here unless you all feel like a refresher in American-Wannabe Jap- Wannabe Chinese -Wannabe Monk is truly necessary.

    The first thing I noticed was the typical RBSD LARPer deelee with "It's a MODERN version because people are TOUGHER than in ancient times" and things like "gun defense" so that "Traditional AK" had to be revamped into a bigger meaner one.

    The whole thing focuses on a "Four Style Art" where GM Villari in his world tour and martial soul searching decided fights had 4 parts or elements:
    1.Punchies
    2. Kickies
    3. Throwies (called "Felling")
    4. Lockies and Chokies
    Which apparently was a huge revelation in the AK world.

    The thing is, his Lockies Throwies and Chokies are from a "secret and ancient Mongolian and Tibetan" art called [try and guess..] Chin Na, which is apparently NOT Chinese but TIBETAN. Someone better go tell the Chinese this, they've been wrong about their history for some time.

    So for the New Age AK Villary has the styles "Shaolin Temple Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, Kung Fu, Kempo, different styles of Karate, as well as the secret art of the White Tiger (Chin Na)."

    Note, it's a "secret art of the White Tiger (Chin Na)" also, not added in the list but apparently also taught there is Tai Chi, (one of the instructors says he wishes to improve his Tai Chi)

    So far? It looks like typical Shaolin Japan (also Okinawan secrecy with White Tiger and stuff that apparently never made it to Goju-Ryu, a style I trained in but am on a haiatus from whilst I college it up) history, typical "Modernization" and then added "Super Secret" Tibetan and Mongolian Uber Grappling Chin Na.

    It goes on to call Karate too simple, Ke_po too much like Shaolin + Karate, Shaolin too wasteful, and none with t3h gr4ppl3 he needed so he combined all three with Tibetan/Mongolian White Crane Chin Na to form "the art with no vulnerabilities"

    And here's a direct quote, word for word of something that had me UTERLY confuuuus-led:
    "Grandmaster Villari also teaches moves of the Immortal Monkey, known for its art of illusion. The Monkey cannot be hit. Its movements are lightning-quick with the ability to change its direction rapidly. It never exhausts its energy and has superior longevity. The monkey is always happy!"

    Umm.... wtf?

    The last statement was how Villari is a god to Azn MA practitioners in the West and was the first to teach large classes (as opposed to Mr Miyagi from Karate Kid type scenarios) and " His input and involvement produced a major turning point in the teaching of martial arts. "

    Arrogance and ignorance I call bullshit.

    Instructors:

    Head Instructor: Matthew J. Connors, training for approx. 16 Years and is a Godan. Wow. He must be quite the prodigy. He wants to be "the authority" on Chin Na (remember, this is TIBETAN AND MONGOLIAN Chin Na) He seems physically fit and able but.....

    Timothy Tighe a Nidan (8yrs experiance, I guess that's not so bad....for krotty/kempo right?) looks like he's 10 and is the secondmost senior instructor so I don't know what to think there. He enjoys accomplishing things like finishing a form (NOT KATA) and gaining belts. Whopee.

    Then we have a fat Shodan fucker who likes Tai Chi, and two female greenbelt asst instructors. Apprently this is a new batch because one might become the first person to go from white to shodan under the heading of Mr. Connors.

    They seem like your average White Suburban happy family daycare LARP-fest Krotty teachers. There's a lot of those here.

    Ranks:
    Normalcy, 9kyus (3 are different levels of brown) and then the average 10 blacks with Villari Numero Ten-o, pretty normal for this sorta thing (as in Karate/Ke_po/Merrrrr)

    They say it's usually a 4 year trip to Black. Even my old Karate school took longer than that. (And in Judo, wow, I'm 3/4 of that time up and only Rokyu)

    Things like Tourneys and Competition in general is optional only, so they apparently don't do outside skool testing of their skillz.

    Note: They also teach Kobuto weapons AND Escrima apparently (also not listed on previous styles list)

    Gallery:

    Umm.... okay, a bunch of kid's group shots and outrageously fat people instructing other outrageously fat people (I am also overweight, but oh man, not like THAT)

    So here's the thing, there's a lot of Tourney's (including the Grandeh Tohoku Tourney next weekend) in the upcoming weekends so none of us (even those with cars) can go visit a place in Millbury at the moment but it's brewing in te background.

    I find this place very typical of the local Ke_po scene (and to be fair the Krotty scene too) and it's a bit sickening. I literally can't find one place out here in Worcester, Framingham and surrounding towns that have a good karate or kempo place. I mean, even my Goju place has no hard contact sparring and there's no real Kyokushin representatives out here and it's very very frustrating. Especially since I like gi's and have great faith in the potential for arts like Goju and Kempo but just never see it happening.

    And I'm getting tired.... g'night.
  2. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 11:54am


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by badsifu
    I am pretty sure there is several hundred posts regarding Villari. I doubt that this particular chain is any different. Ninja up!
    Arrrrghhhhhhhh. After all that searching too.... :violent1:
    Well, I'm off for another two day search.
  3. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 12:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, this Chi Na addition to the Villari story seems kind of new to me. Hopefully some of the more knowledgeable in Massachusetts Villari/Cerio Ke_po will speak up here.

    Where in Worcester are you from? I grew up in Auburn/Worcester.
  4. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 12:31pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mongolian , would that not be Bóke ? If so it like the stand up part of Greco-Roman , great fun.
  5. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 3:56pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Actually, this Chi Na addition to the Villari story seems kind of new to me. Hopefully some of the more knowledgeable in Massachusetts Villari/Cerio Ke_po will speak up here.

    Where in Worcester are you from? I grew up in Auburn/Worcester.
    Hometown is in Ashland, near Framingham, but now I go to Assumption College. It's near WPI and the Art Museum, DCU Center and all that. 500 Salisbury Street. And I'm glad at least one thing could be new or informative. :happy3:

    But yeah, I know a lot of people associated with the Cerio line but I'm not too knowledgable on Villari aside from this skool.
  6. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 3:56pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Actually, this Chi Na addition to the Villari story seems kind of new to me. Hopefully some of the more knowledgeable in Massachusetts Villari/Cerio Ke_po will speak up here.

    Where in Worcester are you from? I grew up in Auburn/Worcester.
    Hometown is in Ashland, near Framingham, but now I go to Assumption College. It's near WPI and the Art Museum, DCU Center and all that. 500 Salisbury Street. And I'm glad at least one thing could be new or informative. :happy3:

    But yeah, I know a lot of people associated with the Cerio line but I'm not too knowledgable on Villari aside from this skool.
  7. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 3:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese
    Hometown is in Ashland, near Framingham, but now I go to Assumption College. It's near WPI and the Art Museum, DCU Center and all that. 500 Salisbury Street. And I'm glad at least one thing could be new or informative. :happy3:

    But yeah, I know a lot of people associated with the Cerio line but I'm not too knowledgable on Villari aside from this skool.

    HA, I know where Ashland is. I ran with a couple of guys from Ashland during college and my first college girlfriend was from Ashland; we're talking 12-13 years ago.
  8. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 4:02pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rexkwon
    Mongolian , would that not be Bóke ? If so it like the stand up part of Greco-Roman , great fun.
    Yeah, I have heard of a Mongolian wrestling that looks like Judo with leather shoulderpads or something. Also, that Yokozuna in Japan is a Mongolian immigrant or something. But they deffinitely don't call it Chin Na and from what I've seen it doesn't resembly the "refined" almost aiki-like movements of most Chin Na people.
  9. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 4:04pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    HA, I know where Ashland is. I ran with a couple of guys from Ashland during college and my first college girlfriend was from Ashland; we're talking 12-13 years ago.
    XD That's crazeh, it's a smal world, neh? I didn't think ANYONE knew where Ashland is, we're like wedged in the crack of Framingham and Hopkington ass-cheeks.
  10. Tenguru is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2006 11:47pm


     Style: Operating Thetan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trained at a Villari's school in the early 1990's. They claimed Chin na as part of the system at that time. I saw a lot of it from the upper belts (4th dan and higher). But I never saw them pull if off against a resisting opponent. They would secure a lock against a choreographed attack, usually a lame choke attempt or step through punch. After the lock was secured, they would ask the student/victim to attempt to escape. Of course, at that point it would be quite difficult. Oh man, the memories. :) Nothing like the joint locks you see in live arts like Judo, Sombo, BJJ, or Submission Wrestling.
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