224859 Bullies, 3642 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 201 to 210 of 245
Page 21 of 25 FirstFirst ... 111718192021 22232425 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. bncwd is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    126

    Posted On:
    3/09/2005 3:59am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WT vs BJJ... this is very funny as they are complementary arts, not mutually exclusive: I know this is the net and you like to debate just for the sake/fun of it (so do I), so I will add throw myself in the middle of this brawl again

    Point 1
    I have done both JJ/BJJ, Kickboxing and WT, so I think I can speak with a certain background that some of the people here don't have. Said that, WT is a striking art so it needs an integration with a grapplling art, and BJJ is a "grappling" art, so it needs an integration with a strinking art. If I had to choose 1 of the 2 in a self defence situation what would I choose? WT if I had trained in it at least 6-7 years, BJJ if Ihad trained it fewer years, but of course I would prefer a combination of the two as ONE IS NOT ENOUGH

    Point 2
    Chi Sao is a drill. That's it. It's like the punching bag for a boxer: does it help the boxer? Yes, a lot. Is it enough to learn to fight? Absolutely not, as to learn to fight you have to....fight, in order to apply what you have trained / learned doing the training at the punching bag.

    Point 3
    Sometimes I even doubt that the people stating they do WT/WC actually do it, from what they say. The idea is not to trap/chi sao, but to hit the other: from what I do in the gym, first thing is to throw strikes, if they are somehow blocked, parried or deflected, the idea is to do not get stuck and try other strikes: we have never done something as trapping (I've been doing it about 3/4 yrs now).

    Point 4
    The multiple opponent training we do is just a training, where it's the person in the middle who has to take the initiative, attack one and than move in a way that he can escape

    Point 5
    We do not wrestle in WT class, and I think the antiground and antigrappling programs are, in effect, useless, especially because they are just drills vs someone who has never really wrestled. As a matter of fact, my instructor only showed them once as emergency tools during a stage, and they looked a lot as traditional JJ: when I observed that, the instructer said "well the body is done in a certain way, so the methods at the end to do a lock or a throw must be at least very similar at the end"

    Point 6
    If some of you has done some matches or sparring where both striking and grappling is allowed (I used to do those in my old gym), you know that it's difficult trying to apply a striking art vs throwdown, but at the same time it's also easy to get a lot of punches when you are trying to lock or throw someone if you are not careful.

    Ciao!
    Last edited by bncwd; 3/09/2005 4:02am at .
  2. wingchunnewbie is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    706

    Posted On:
    3/09/2005 6:21am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    WCNewbie, I posted that. Its not a full contact tournament. It was the US Capitol Classics, which I think was point sparring. Its Sifu Shannon Moore of the Cheung Lineage. If you really want, I can dig it up again, but I think it will be not good for your early argument in this thread.
    By all means dig it up. My only point is that WC can be good if trained right (i.e. with hard contact and conditioning), and somebody asked if there were any vids of WC people actually winning something. Indeed there are, as that vid shows.

    I've never claimed that WC is a 'complete' art, I've always said that cross training is a good idea, I've never claimed that hard sparring or conditioning are unnecessary, and I'm well aware that t3h ant1gr4ppl3 is a myth. If there was a BJJ or good adult judo class near me, I would happily train at them (time & money permitting).

    uh, what am I saying ?

    BJJ is t3h gh3y. I can stop a gracie taking me down with my d34dly finger-poke skillz and by rooting my horse-stance to the floor with t3h ch1. Chuck Liddell fears my tan sau.

    That's better. I apologise for the earlier interruption of normal wing-chun troll service.
  3. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    3,360

    Posted On:
    3/09/2005 9:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunnewbie
    By all means dig it up. My only point is that WC can be good if trained right (i.e. with hard contact and conditioning), and somebody asked if there were any vids of WC people actually winning something. Indeed there are, as that vid shows.
    I don't think Sifu Moore won anything at that tournament. And he's not very conditioned and from what my former master told me they don't do hard contact often at his school. That being said, the vid used to be here, but it seems to be down:


    http://www.templewingchun.com/new/twcvideos.html
  4. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    4,501

    Posted On:
    3/09/2005 9:50am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunnewbie
    If there was a BJJ or good adult judo class near me, I would happily train at them
  5. Vankuen is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    141

    Posted On:
    3/09/2005 11:30pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    I don't think Sifu Moore won anything at that tournament. And he's not very conditioned and from what my former master told me they don't do hard contact often at his school. That being said, the vid used to be here, but it seems to be down:


    http://www.templewingchun.com/new/twcvideos.html
    He seems to be able to put something behind that first side kick in the outside sparring clip. But then again he outweighed his opponent by quite a bit. The tournament clip he pretty much just took the axe kick then wrapped it and pushed. Had the person kicking been able to apply it with power, Sifu Moore wouldn't have much of a shoulder to catch anymore on after that. Evasion or snuffing the kick out before it's at it's power range would be better in my opinion.
    The clip of the monks and him wasn't sparring in any sense...just some political slapping. Sifu Moore, from my understanding, was simply trying to diffuse a very volitile situation by taking the slap from the Monk. So that shouldn't even be considered a show of skill in the sense of a "fight".
  6. lightninghands is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    44

    Posted On:
    3/10/2005 12:01am


     Style: Wing Chun, Kun tao, kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    Most of the BJJ guys on this forum train in some sort of standup. And the guys that don't, are probably planning on some standup striking arts, or are aware that BJJ is not a complete system. I doubt very highly that any BJJ practicioner on this site would say that BJJ is complete and BJJ alone will help you in a multiple attacker situation.

    That being said, I think you're going about this the wrong way. Let's say you are in a bar fight with multiple attackers. The chance that someone will tackle you (say when you're hitting a different guy, someone comes up to you from behind) is very high. When you're on the ground and need to get back up fast while doing maximum damage, what would you rather have??? BJJ or Wing Chun Chi Sao??

    I personally would rather armbar and destroy the motherfuckers elbow rather than play touchy feely with his hands.
    The point i am trying to make is this, if you use BJJ ie, ground fighting in a street fighting scenario, (no refs or judges) and there are a lot of people around (a bar in this example) it is probly not advantageous to be on the ground! which some one else has also made a point of just a few posts ago. I think that you all have the wrong idea of what wing chun is, every one keeps saying chisao, or trapping, i cant help but wonder if this reasoning is due to a lack of knowledge in the style, but most likely a background in JKD, which really largely only utilizes the trapping and chisao of wing chun.

    do you guys think that if you go to a wing chun school all they will be doing is chisaoing and thats what the whole class consist of??? i sure hope not. other wise the style wouldnt have lasted this long. if the wing chun is used right, its really vicious! you wouldnt wrap or clench up with any one, you would utilize yoru chisao training, and swim through their hands to poke them in the eye and then knee them int he balls, and stomp out their knee or elbow them in the face!. etc.

    if you spend too much time with one person in this scenario (a multiman scenario) then you could end up like some one else said, be attacked from the back or side, or tackled. you have to keep moving and taking out guys in any way possible. knees eyes, throat, balls, armbar, elbows etc. i am also implying that knowledge of both a striking art, and grappling art are an absolute must if you want to be a rounded, and competant fighter. wing chun alone is not the answer, also BJJ alone is not the answer. infact blending those two arts, has proven to be a very good mix. they both strive for superior positioning, they both dont try to out muscle their opponent, they use adaptive moves to deal with what ever situation is at hand!

    take a class in both, and youll find they both have a great answer to two essential aspects of fighting.
  7. Shuma-Gorath is offline
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    6,608

    Posted On:
    3/10/2005 12:14am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lightninghands
    take a class in both, and youll find they both have a great answer to two essential aspects of fighting.
    Maybe you should learn a tiny bit about BJJ before assuming it's all "LOL HOW DO I FLOPPED GUARD IN BARFIGHT???"

    Then I'll tell you about the time my school's fight team cleaned out an entire bar.
  8. Little Idea is offline
    Little Idea's Avatar

    Ready are you? What know you of ready?

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    721

    Posted On:
    3/10/2005 12:43am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT(& Prenatal Yoga)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    Then I'll tell you about the time my school's fight team cleaned out an entire bar.
    With mops and towels?

    I can't believe this is really a thread.

    I mean haven't we already done this thread enough.

    Somewhere between Phil Elmore (*ing **un), who can't fight, and Shuma (BJJ), who can't fight, there is truth.

    If you like what you do, train hard, when you find something doesn't work, fix it, iterate. . .
    If a `religion' is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable statements, then Godel taught us that mathematics is not only a religion, it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one. -- John Barrow

    Talk to TBK's boyfriend:

  9. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    3,360

    Posted On:
    3/10/2005 1:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lightninghands
    The point i am trying to make is this, if you use BJJ ie, ground fighting in a street fighting scenario, (no refs or judges) and there are a lot of people around (a bar in this example) it is probly not advantageous to be on the ground! which some one else has also made a point of just a few posts ago. I think that you all have the wrong idea of what wing chun is, every one keeps saying chisao, or trapping, i cant help but wonder if this reasoning is due to a lack of knowledge in the style, but most likely a background in JKD, which really largely only utilizes the trapping and chisao of wing chun.
    I have done WC for 2-3 yrs. I kno its not all chi sao. But there was a lot of talk about chi sao on the previous pages. I thought it was about chisao vs grappling sensitivity. As for rolling around the ground yea I don't think that's how you want to start out (or be for that matter), but with multiple attackers thats probably where you're gonna end up.

    do you guys think that if you go to a wing chun school all they will be doing is chisaoing and thats what the whole class consist of??? i sure hope not. other wise the style wouldnt have lasted this long. if the wing chun is used right, its really vicious! you wouldnt wrap or clench up with any one, you would utilize yoru chisao training, and swim through their hands to poke them in the eye and then knee them int he balls, and stomp out their knee or elbow them in the face!. etc.
    t3h d34dLy

    if you spend too much time with one person in this scenario (a multiman scenario) then you could end up like some one else said, be attacked from the back or side, or tackled. you have to keep moving and taking out guys in any way possible. knees eyes, throat, balls, armbar, elbows etc. i am also implying that knowledge of both a striking art, and grappling art are an absolute must if you want to be a rounded, and competant fighter. wing chun alone is not the answer, also BJJ alone is not the answer. infact blending those two arts, has proven to be a very good mix. they both strive for superior positioning, they both dont try to out muscle their opponent, they use adaptive moves to deal with what ever situation is at hand!
    I think ur preaching to a mass of converted ppl


    take a class in both, and youll find they both have a great answer to two essential aspects of fighting.
    Def preaching to the converted
  10. Boyd is offline
    Boyd's Avatar

    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cwcville
    Posts
    5,374

    Posted On:
    3/10/2005 5:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    New rule: No one is ever allowed to say "t3h d34d7y" or any permutation thereof from now on. Agreed?
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.