Getting to the bottom of Shaolin-do

[Judge Pen]

they require good muscle control and balance to pull off correctly. (To pull off incorrectly, they require neither of these and look like crap.)

That's true for most TMA.

[It is Fake]

I am currently a 3rd Degree black belt. It took me about 3.5 years to get a black belt. (The blackbelt, by the way, is kind of like moving from grade school to high school; you have the basics, now the fun stuff begins.) I have been taking this art for about 10 years now. I'm sure that there are some schools out there that will promote you to black belt in 1.5 years, but really, those schools aren't very good. The real measure should be in a school's teacher, and students. I know for a fact that some SD schools are run just to make money, but ours isn't. (And none of our money goes to Kentucky or Grandmaster Sin, just so you know it's not about that.)

Please don't make assumptions. I was going to leave it alone but i can't. This is why East/West don't get along. Don't make Blanket statements. You don't know if they are bad or good schools. I don't agree with the 1.5 years yet for you 10=3rd degree for others on the west 10=3rd degree. I know you are saying all schools but the main thing in this thread earlier discussed was the year or less crap between East and West.

[wydren]

Please don't make assumptions. I was going to leave it alone but i can't. This is why East/West don't get along. Don't make Blanket statements. You don't know if they are bad or good schools. I don't agree with the 1.5 years yet for you 10=3rd degree for others on the west 10=3rd degree. I know you are saying all schools but the main thing in this thread earlier discussed was the year or less crap between East and West.

I was just meaning to say that any school that would promote you to blackbelt in 1.5 years probably isn't any good. I can't prove it, but I know that there are some schools (in many different styles) that are more concerned with making their customers happy (i.e. rank advancement) than with making sure they learn good martial arts. I was just trying to say please don't judge our entire style by one school that is more concerned with rank advancement than with turing out consistently good students.

[shaolindochef]

Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming (1880 - 1976)

Grandmaster Ie Chang MingIe Chang Ming was born in 1880 and admitted to the Fukien temple as a young boy. There he spent all of his time and energy learning the martial arts, specifically the Golden Snake system. Upon the death of Su Kong Tai Djin, the title of Grandmaster was passed to his top student, Ie Chang Ming.

Later in his life, after taking a wife and starting a family, Grandmaster Ie returned home to find his wife being attacked by some soldiers. After killing ten of them, a price was put on his head. He fled to Bandung, Indonesia and eventually established a Shaolin school there. In Indonesian culture, the Chinese were hated. To avoid conflict with the government, Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming added the Japanese word, Do to Shaolin to disguise it as a Japanese art rather than a Chinese art. At this time, he also adopted the Japanese gi (uniform) and belt ranking system that we still use today in his honor.

Grandmaster Ie was famous throughout Indonesia for his martial arts abilities, specifically his iron palm training, his high level of meditation, and his mastery of the Golden Snake system, the highest art of the Shaolin Temple. To demonstrate his iron palm skills to his students, Grandmaster Ie placed several grains of uncooked rice between two boards and then smacked it with his hand. After lifting the top board, the rice had been reduced to powder! In another demonstration, he instructed one of his students to fetch a river rock from the stream near the school. He placed the rock on the anvil, struck it with his palm, and left the room. His students, unimpressed and failing to realize what they had just witnessed, walked over to the rock which was still sitting on the anvil and tried to pick it up. It simply turned to dust and fell through their fingers!

Grandmaster Ie's meditation skills were so high that he did not sleep at night. He would place his head on one chair and his heels on another chair and suspend himself between them every night while meditating for hours. In the morning, he would instruct one of his students to place a chopstick in the hollow of his throat and strike it with a rock. Rather than penetrate his throat, the chopstick would shatter into hundreds of splintered shards!

To demonstrate his mastery of the Golden Snake system, Grandmaster Ie would have his students tie his hands and feet together and then lay on the ground. At this point, a member of the audience would be brought forward, given a sharpened spear, and told to try and stab him. He was never stabbed! At this point, Grandmaster Ie would "slither" over to a large wooden pole and proceed to climb it without using his hands or feet which were still tied! He would wrap his body around the pole and, using his extreme muscular control, would slither up and around the pole to the top!

[yieldingbamboo]

What began as a sense of awe while reading the "history" of shaolin-do (http://www.ashevilleshaolin.com/history.html) has gradually morphed into disgust and righteous anger. I started training there last week as something of a martial arts impulse buy, and since even the sifu thinks something is up (he's dropped the -do from the shaolin-do and brings in BJJ instructors on Saturdays for himself and his students), I feel the need to get to the bottom of this.

I'm also a history major at UNCA and am working on my senior thesis. I'm thinking the two could be combined.

As luck would have it, it turns out Sin Kwang Thé is coming to Asheville in late March. He's going to be personally attending the belt testing at Asheville Shaolin and deciding whether or not it should become officially offiliated with the Shaolin-Do association. It's almost as if the hand of God was behind these events.

So I intend to get to the bottom of this and try to arrange an interview with "Grandmaster" Thé while he is here. At the very least I want an explanation of the origins of his martial arts style.

This is all easier said than done. If I come off as too confrontational, I'll never get an interview. If I throw softball questions, he can be evasive and dodge any accountability. I'm thinking a good strategy may be to come in acting like an admirer, but then try to somehow trap him and get him to contradict himself.

Any suggestions on how to get the interview? What to ask if I do get it? Thanks in advance.

I actually trained here at this place in asheville for a year. I would have trained there forever if I hadn't moved and done some research... It seemed he was teaching real kung fu, and i also noticed he wasn't affiliated with the Shaolin-Do organization, not did he call it that. He also only referred to 30 animal styles as the basis of the system taught there, with the five being the cornerstone for blackbelt. Aren't Five Animal/Five Ancestors and 30 Animal both at once real (or still are) real styles of kung fu with a Shaolin lineage?

I was also under the impression that every style of kung fu originated from Shaolin or has Shaolin influences. But I could most definitely be incorrect.

[zapatismo]

has nebody heard the story about how gmst blocked a horses kick and then kicked the horse into a lake? i heard this story the most during my time with csc. i have heard a number of diffrent endings also with the horse having its ribs broken to the horse just being pushed into the the lake and coming out unscathed.

[krsd]

I've heard it, and it is even recounted on page 1-18 of the CSC manual I'll list it here as a courtesy to those who don't have access to it.

"At sixteen, Sin Kwang The' had developed tremendous strength. He realized this on a school field trip to a farm. The farmer rented him a horse for a ride around a lake. Sin Kwang rode with great spirit, kicking his heels into the horse's flanks to make it go faster. When he dismounted, the horse decided to get in a few kicks of its own! Sin Kwang blocked the horse's kick and gave it a side thrust that sent it tumbling into the lake!"

I would guess that the addition of the horse having broken ribs was added in the retelling.

[cj]

Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming (1880 - 1976)

Grandmaster Ie Chang MingIe Chang Ming was born in 1880 and admitted to the Fukien temple as a young boy. There he spent all of his time and energy learning the martial arts, specifically the Golden Snake system. Upon the death of Su Kong Tai Djin, the title of Grandmaster was passed to his top student, Ie Chang Ming.

Later in his life, after taking a wife and starting a family, Grandmaster Ie returned home to find his wife being attacked by some soldiers. After killing ten of them, a price was put on his head. He fled to Bandung, Indonesia and eventually established a Shaolin school there. In Indonesian culture, the Chinese were hated. To avoid conflict with the government, Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming added the Japanese word, Do to Shaolin to disguise it as a Japanese art rather than a Chinese art. At this time, he also adopted the Japanese gi (uniform) and belt ranking system that we still use today in his honor.

Grandmaster Ie was famous throughout Indonesia for his martial arts abilities, specifically his iron palm training, his high level of meditation, and his mastery of the Golden Snake system, the highest art of the Shaolin Temple. To demonstrate his iron palm skills to his students, Grandmaster Ie placed several grains of uncooked rice between two boards and then smacked it with his hand. After lifting the top board, the rice had been reduced to powder! In another demonstration, he instructed one of his students to fetch a river rock from the stream near the school. He placed the rock on the anvil, struck it with his palm, and left the room. His students, unimpressed and failing to realize what they had just witnessed, walked over to the rock which was still sitting on the anvil and tried to pick it up. It simply turned to dust and fell through their fingers!

Grandmaster Ie's meditation skills were so high that he did not sleep at night. He would place his head on one chair and his heels on another chair and suspend himself between them every night while meditating for hours. In the morning, he would instruct one of his students to place a chopstick in the hollow of his throat and strike it with a rock. Rather than penetrate his throat, the chopstick would shatter into hundreds of splintered shards!

To demonstrate his mastery of the Golden Snake system, Grandmaster Ie would have his students tie his hands and feet together and then lay on the ground. At this point, a member of the audience would be brought forward, given a sharpened spear, and told to try and stab him. He was never stabbed! At this point, Grandmaster Ie would "slither" over to a large wooden pole and proceed to climb it without using his hands or feet which were still tied! He would wrap his body around the pole and, using his extreme muscular control, would slither up and around the pole to the top!

If anyone really believes horse **** like this they deserved to get parted with their hard earned my friend. What a crock of ****.

[Angrydog]

Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming (1880 - 1976)

Grandmaster Ie Chang MingIe Chang Ming was born in 1880 and admitted to the Fukien temple as a young boy. There he spent all of his time and energy learning the martial arts, specifically the Golden Snake system. Upon the death of Su Kong Tai Djin, the title of Grandmaster was passed to his top student, Ie Chang Ming.

Later in his life, after taking a wife and starting a family, Grandmaster Ie returned home to find his wife being attacked by some soldiers. After killing ten of them, a price was put on his head. He fled to Bandung, Indonesia and eventually established a Shaolin school there. In Indonesian culture, the Chinese were hated. To avoid conflict with the government, Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming added the Japanese word, Do to Shaolin to disguise it as a Japanese art rather than a Chinese art. At this time, he also adopted the Japanese gi (uniform) and belt ranking system that we still use today in his honor.

Grandmaster Ie was famous throughout Indonesia for his martial arts abilities, specifically his iron palm training, his high level of meditation, and his mastery of the Golden Snake system, the highest art of the Shaolin Temple. To demonstrate his iron palm skills to his students, Grandmaster Ie placed several grains of uncooked rice between two boards and then smacked it with his hand. After lifting the top board, the rice had been reduced to powder! In another demonstration, he instructed one of his students to fetch a river rock from the stream near the school. He placed the rock on the anvil, struck it with his palm, and left the room. His students, unimpressed and failing to realize what they had just witnessed, walked over to the rock which was still sitting on the anvil and tried to pick it up. It simply turned to dust and fell through their fingers!

Grandmaster Ie's meditation skills were so high that he did not sleep at night. He would place his head on one chair and his heels on another chair and suspend himself between them every night while meditating for hours. In the morning, he would instruct one of his students to place a chopstick in the hollow of his throat and strike it with a rock. Rather than penetrate his throat, the chopstick would shatter into hundreds of splintered shards!

To demonstrate his mastery of the Golden Snake system, Grandmaster Ie would have his students tie his hands and feet together and then lay on the ground. At this point, a member of the audience would be brought forward, given a sharpened spear, and told to try and stab him. He was never stabbed! At this point, Grandmaster Ie would "slither" over to a large wooden pole and proceed to climb it without using his hands or feet which were still tied! He would wrap his body around the pole and, using his extreme muscular control, would slither up and around the pole to the top!

I am going to pray that you are kidding. Because if you arent you really need to go kill yourself. Has proof even though anyone with common sense can see that its fake the human body requires exactly 15 seconds of REM sleep every 72 hours your meditating grandmaster was phisycally impossibe. Please answer my prayer and tell me that you where just recounting a good story. Because it sounded ok until the killing of 10 ARMED soldiers with his bear hands. It all went downhill from there.

[DaTedBear]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115628