Getting to the bottom of Shaolin-do

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 3/16/2005 10:02pm

Originally Posted by Judge Pen

I can understand this position, but I cannot assume roughly comparable dojos or kwoons. I think the training is not only comparable, but exceeds many TMA. I've tried other styles and I make it a point to work out with various JMA and CMA people. I've even tried a little BJJ which was excellent and I would recommend cross-training to anyone. But the work-out, practical training, forms-work and atmosphere are excellent even if you need several grains of salt with story time.

The bullshido in SD isn't the training. You can talk about history, lineage, and the origins of the arts that are represented in SD. SD is it's own animal--it's own brand of martial art and it's pretty good.

Besides, if you start digging into many well-respected TMA lineages and history, you'll start to uncover some myth and legend passed down as fact. SD is a little more obvious, but I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water.

BTW, Samuel, what type of law do you practice?

A bit of criminal, a bit of family, and I'm now moving into a strange beast called the Federal Longshore Act. And yourself? :)

**Judge Pen** · Posted On: 3/17/2005 8:20am

I'm primarily a civil defense litigator. I don't do criminal or family. Anything you can sue over, I can get involved to defend it. Never had to deal with the Longshore Act.

**mewarmo990** · Posted On: 3/26/2005 5:07pm

*bump*

I'm a little behind. Basically what are we talking about now? Legal-fu?
(Oh yeah, Law Ninjas for anyone who's read 8-bit theater.)

Baby melting/burning is just irrelevant. It's a tall tale, but who cares. :violent5:

Can anyone look at it objectively and find out if the material from the system is legit? I posted a while back about the Hua forms, and it's likely that they aren't precisely derived from the mountain temple itself. So what about the others?

I don't know what we're talking about anymore. Help me. :confused:

**Judge Pen** · Posted On: 3/29/2005 3:24pm

Originally Posted by mewarmo990

*bump*

I'm a little behind. Basically what are we talking about now? Legal-fu?
(Oh yeah, Law Ninjas for anyone who's read 8-bit theater.)

Baby melting/burning is just irrelevant. It's a tall tale, but who cares. :violent5:

Can anyone look at it objectively and find out if the material from the system is legit? I posted a while back about the Hua forms, and it's likely that they aren't precisely derived from the mountain temple itself. So what about the others?

I don't know what we're talking about anymore. Help me. :confused:

What do you mean, "precisely derived?" The Hua Quan forms of SD (along with its Tiger Crane Duet) are among the more recognizable CMA forms of the system. I know the first Road of Hua and I have compared it to what I could find other branches teach and it's startlingly the same. Where did the people in SD learn this? Short answer: Sin The. Where did he get it from? I can't say for certain, but he says he was taguth these forms in Indonesia. I can't confirm or deny any of this, but I think SD's hua is as legit and real as any other school teaching Hua longfist.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/29/2005 7:30pm

Yep. I have three Hua books outside of Shaolin-Do that confirm 4/6 of their Hua forms. Possibly 5. Doesn't mean it is from Hua or Shaolin just that they do have some legit kung fu.

**wydren** · Posted On: 3/29/2005 9:32pm

Well, I discovered this website, and had to chime in. I am a student of Shaolin-Do (primarily). Thought I'd weigh in with my opinions. Grandmaster The likes to tell stories. Are they always true? No. Does this have anything to do with SD as a martial art? No. I think it's a good martial art, because I think martial arts should be a good mixture of kata and applications. Say what you want about kata, but to be done correctly, they require good muscle control, strength, and coordination. Unfortunately, some schools are more about making money than about good martial arts. But this could be said about any martial art. I think my teacher and school are very good.

I am currently a 3rd Degree black belt. It took me about 3.5 years to get a black belt. (The blackbelt, by the way, is kind of like moving from grade school to high school; you have the basics, now the fun stuff begins.) I have been taking this art for about 10 years now. I'm sure that there are some schools out there that will promote you to black belt in 1.5 years, but really, those schools aren't very good. The real measure should be in a school's teacher, and students. I know for a fact that some SD schools are run just to make money, but ours isn't. (And none of our money goes to Kentucky or Grandmaster Sin, just so you know it's not about that.)

I'm not saying that our art is perfect. It's not. In fact, we are very weak when it comes to grappling. I read that thread about the guy who came to a Shaolin-Do school to spar, won one and lost one. That's about how it would happen. If someone got to grappling, a SD student would probably loose. If the SD guy kept him at length, the SD guy would win. (For this reason, I'm looking to also learn some grappling, but that's because I want to be well rounded and I believe that knowledge is very important and something that should never be turned down.)

Is it an authentic Chinese martial art? Up in the air. Some of our stuff is descended from Shaolin. Is this the same Shaolin that the monks learned back in midevial China? No, but I think it would be very hard, if not impossible to find someone to teach that stuff. Wushu definately isn't the same as the old stuff either. As far as I'm concerned, it's close enough to a Chinese martial art for me. Besides, who cares where the art came from if it's good? And that depends more on the teachers and the students than the history.

Is Master Sin full of sh*t? Not totally. (The baby story is absurd and unbelievable, but I think all guys in general like to embellish stories to make them sound cooler; otherwise where did the "I caught a fish this big" cliche come from? I don't know what really happened, nor do I care.) All I know is that the guy is in remarkable shape for a 60-year old. I've seen him do things that would put most 20-year old guys to shame. I've seen (with my own eyes) this guy put on a 100 pound weight vest and do pull-ups without breaking a sweat.

All in all, I'd have to say that Shaolin-Do, like all martial arts, has its good and bad. You just have to look around to find the good. (If you're every going to be in the Cincinnati area, drop me a line).

**Judge Pen** · Posted On: 3/30/2005 9:03am

Originally Posted by wydren

Well, I discovered this website, and had to chime in. I am a student of Shaolin-Do (primarily). Thought I'd weigh in with my opinions. Grandmaster The likes to tell stories. Are they always true? No. Does this have anything to do with SD as a martial art? No. I think it's a good martial art, because I think martial arts should be a good mixture of kata and applications. Say what you want about kata, but to be done correctly, they require good muscle control, strength, and coordination. Unfortunately, some schools are more about making money than about good martial arts. But this could be said about any martial art. I think my teacher and school are very good.

I am currently a 3rd Degree black belt. It took me about 3.5 years to get a black belt. (The blackbelt, by the way, is kind of like moving from grade school to high school; you have the basics, now the fun stuff begins.) I have been taking this art for about 10 years now. I'm sure that there are some schools out there that will promote you to black belt in 1.5 years, but really, those schools aren't very good. The real measure should be in a school's teacher, and students. I know for a fact that some SD schools are run just to make money, but ours isn't. (And none of our money goes to Kentucky or Grandmaster Sin, just so you know it's not about that.)

I'm not saying that our art is perfect. It's not. In fact, we are very weak when it comes to grappling. I read that thread about the guy who came to a Shaolin-Do school to spar, won one and lost one. That's about how it would happen. If someone got to grappling, a SD student would probably loose. If the SD guy kept him at length, the SD guy would win. (For this reason, I'm looking to also learn some grappling, but that's because I want to be well rounded and I believe that knowledge is very important and something that should never be turned down.)

Is it an authentic Chinese martial art? Up in the air. Some of our stuff is descended from Shaolin. Is this the same Shaolin that the monks learned back in midevial China? No, but I think it would be very hard, if not impossible to find someone to teach that stuff. Wushu definately isn't the same as the old stuff either. As far as I'm concerned, it's close enough to a Chinese martial art for me. Besides, who cares where the art came from if it's good? And that depends more on the teachers and the students than the history.

Is Master Sin full of sh*t? Not totally. (The baby story is absurd and unbelievable, but I think all guys in general like to embellish stories to make them sound cooler; otherwise where did the "I caught a fish this big" cliche come from? I don't know what really happened, nor do I care.) All I know is that the guy is in remarkable shape for a 60-year old. I've seen him do things that would put most 20-year old guys to shame. I've seen (with my own eyes) this guy put on a 100 pound weight vest and do pull-ups without breaking a sweat.

All in all, I'd have to say that Shaolin-Do, like all martial arts, has its good and bad. You just have to look around to find the good. (If you're every going to be in the Cincinnati area, drop me a line).

Thanks for chimming in. I'm also a 3rd degree black and have been studying for 16 years. I'll extend the same invitation to you. . . . If you are ever in Knoxville then drop by!

**mewarmo990** · Posted On: 3/30/2005 10:05pm

The Hua forms are legit to some degree. That's good. All I wanted to know.
:qleft3: :qright3:

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/31/2005 1:41am

Originally Posted by mewarmo990

The Hua forms are legit to some degree. That's good. All I wanted to know.
:qleft3: :qright3:

Now again I'm not validating the whole art. I'm saying this is a rare style that can be validated outside of SD by books from of China. I would say more so than somewhat. The only thing I can't prove yet is if it comes from the Hua temple or the region.

**wydren** · Posted On: 3/31/2005 8:08am

Originally Posted by mewarmo990

The Hua forms are legit to some degree. That's good. All I wanted to know.
:qleft3: :qright3:

I know they'll give you a good workout, and that they require good muscle control and balance to pull off correctly. (To pull off incorrectly, they require neither of these and look like crap.)