Getting to the bottom of Shaolin-do

**Pumpkin King** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 10:32am

I think he's right. I want to say that he started his first business in Lexington. But I don't remember too clearly. If you can dig up someone who has a copy of The's book, I think it's in there. And, off topic, supposedly he's had a bid in to have a movie made about his life and training for years now. Besides the "At the feet of the Grandmaster" film. I wonder what -that- would be like.

And about that katana vs. Chinese jian bit earlier- the Chinese did some of the first work with differentially tempered blades. The Japanese just perfected the process. You can go beyond that to the actual usage of the blade- where a lot of misconceptions lie. People like to debate which is better without taking into consideration that many of these things depend on the way that a blade is designed (shape and balance-wise) rather than its actual metallurgical makeup. Or combine the two. You -could- debate the merits of a differentially tempered katana vs. one that isn't (there aren't any merits to the latter -BTW- unless you really like breaking blades) or a Chinese jian of steel laminate construction vs. a Chinese jian forged on a single type of steel. On the other hand you can talk slashing blades vs. thrusting blades, and so on. Grr.

**kwai chang** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 10:50pm

I could resist no longer. I have pondered over all of the writings of this thread and for those who doubt Shaolin do's validity. Let them prove it. Hearsay should not be applied here and 2nd hand knowledge either. If you do not and did not hear it directly from GM Sin The then what you are printing is invalid. I have observed many "Masters" of many styles I trained under the guidance of a Uchi Deshi of Ueshiba. The Aikido of my Sensei is different than others I have seen but I do not question the "realness" of it. All apples do not look the same but they are apples none the less. I have trained and achieved high rank in many traditional systems and have found the one attacked the most is usually the most valid. BTW the "Shaolin " most know as Shaolin would not even resemble what was practiced in SanFrancisco China town at the turn of the century. Why interpretation and emphasis of the instructor. Nothing stays the same all we can do is try to be the best we can be. Put more time into practice instead of writing about practice or styles and you might come close to your desired goal. Thanks for reading??

**jhearne** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 10:59pm

I have pondered over all of the writings of this thread and for those who doubt Shaolin do's validity. Let them prove it. Hearsay should not be applied here and 2nd hand knowledge either. If you do not and did not hear it directly from GM Sin The then what you are printing is invalid.

Surely you mean something besides "validity" and "invalid." I'm not sure you're using these words correctly, regardless of whether you're right or not.

I have trained and achieved high rank in many traditional systems and have found the one attacked the most is usually the most valid.

This is a logical fallacy called "Positing the Consequent." You're reasoning, if I read you correctly, is:
If an art is "valid" (for valid, I will substitute "Sound."), then it is likely to be attacked often.
Art X is attacked often.
Therefore, Art X is Valid.

**kwai chang** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 11:07pm

Grammer is not my strong suit. But the question is the Validity of the history disprove it or talk about english grammar. True to you Jhearne. that is what i meant.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 11:22pm

Originally Posted by kwai chang

I could resist no longer. I have pondered over all of the writings of this thread and for those who doubt Shaolin do's validity. Let them prove it.

Thank you but I'm just doubting the validity of their origin story, and the word of Grandmaster Sin.

Originally Posted by kwai chang

Hearsay should not be applied here and 2nd hand knowledge either. If you do not and did not hear it directly from GM Sin The then what you are printing is invalid.

Nice try but we're not in a court of law. One of our members at Bullshido has posted how he was in the audience for the filming of Sin's DVD when he made the melting statement, if you want I could dig up the thread for you. He provided a first person account, and others on this board have also heard the baby melting comment. Would you be willing to loan me your personal autographed copy of the Sin's DVD "At the feet of the Master" to prove that they are lying?

[QUOTE=kwai chang]
I have observed many "Masters" of many styles I trained under the guidance of a Uchi Deshi of Ueshiba. The Aikido of my Sensei is different than others I have seen but I do not question the "realness" of it. All apples do not look the same but they are apples none the less. I have trained and achieved high rank in many traditional systems and have found the one attacked the most is usually the most valid. QUOTE]

You realize that your last statement is so generalized to be meaningless, if true Ashida Kim would be a real ninja. Please explain what you mean when you say "the most valid" and what arts you are thinking of that have been the most attacked yet are the most valid. hmmm why does this 'causation exist?

**kwai chang** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 11:35pm

I hope you guys are as good at fighting as you are at nitpicking. Aything can be taken out of context. My meaning was and is. You guys attack a style with out proof. Melting is a term and I too have seen the DVD. how would you describe the taste of chocolate to those who havent eaten it.? Also it ( styles you believe are "fake") exists to give people like you something to whine about, think of the good and positive things Martial Arts do. Instead you and others try to just tear down what some one may Love and respect. No one , oh never mind.

**jhearne** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 11:39pm

The only reason I nitpick is because I'm trying to challenge you to present a consistent and effective argument. It would seem that there is a significant burden upon you to prove, at the very least inductively, that what you are saying is true. I will pick at the logic of your arguments because if you execute a logical fallacy, then I have no reason to believe the conclusion you reach through faulty rasoning. If the form of your argument is wrong, then it's not a good argument regardless of what it says.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 3/13/2005 11:42pm

Chocolate melts, babies don't. If you are saying the melting comment is being taken out of context, why don't you type in exactly what he said on this thread. If you're to busy to do this, I will be happy to do so myself if you are willing to loan me the DVD. My mailing address is Samuel Browning Esq, 671 Scotland Road, Norwich Ct, 06360. I'll be happy to listen to all of his pre-recorded comments.