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  1. Pumpkin King is offline

    Chemically unstable.

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    44

    Posted On:
    2/24/2005 10:49am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I have some news for you, both about the project and the interview. If you've done your homework, you know that the one and only Sin Kwang The not only claims to be a lost Shaolin Grandmaster descended from Ie Chang Ming and a werewolf, but is also a native born Indonesian.

    I have met him, and 'interviewed' him briefly. Every year he tours *every* major SD school in the United States. Which means that you could theoretically check all of their collective web itineraries and badger him cross-country- for what goo it will do you. Sin The has been a relatively well-known player in the *Karate* tournament game since the 1960's. Even today he is still on speaking terms with Superfoot. Although I'm not sure to what extent that he competed... or if he did. As you can read, Shaolin-do is an 'art of combat, not of sport' etc. That's usually followed by something referencing it being 'too deadly' for tournament use. But I digress.

    Being as he's tacked a 'DO' on, the students for the most part wear a Japanese gi, in a Japanese style (with the exception of the flaps being reversed- tricky!), and that a section of the Shaolin training manual is titled 'Ippon Kumite,' one would be inclined to believe that this amalgam of pseudo-Chinese-Japanese Wade-Giles garbled crap is in fact, something that he's drawn from the recesses of his mind. Which must me large indeed, as within SD circles it's said that he possesses intimate and complete knowledge on over 900 forms. Of course, to access them you would need to progress through his 'belt-system' from 1st black to 10th would require 46 years, non-stop. At easily over $1000 a year in fees (with the required special classes at an added charge, of course) and belt tests requiring a fee of $100 per degree that only guarantees that you have access to things like 'Meteor Fist' and 'Golden Snake,' not that they'll be taught. He DOES have three eighth degree students (one of whom is his brother). So technically they'll be tenths in... about 2024 A.D.

    Which is an incredible deal for him, because as I understand it, all schools are part of a Sin-The-Corporation-esque franchise system. He gets a percentage and dictates all the financial matters dealing with the schools. That means fees, contracts with Tiger Claw for uniforms, etc. - keeping prices artificially high. Once a year he requires all of his 'Masters' - those 5th degree and above who have gone through his 'rigorous' testing process to recieve the titles of 'Associate Master' 'Master' or 'Elder Master' - to converge on the school located in Denver (curiously not his original school now run by Bill Leonard in Lexington, KY http://www.shaolin-do.com- he now for some reason favors David and Sharon Soard) to 'learn secret material undisclosed to those below the 6th degree- except for 5th degrees of course' They are only taught by him quite briefly and are sent back to their respective schools with apparent sudden mastery of the material- that they manage to learn such advanced forms over a few days, to perfection, in only a few weekends a year is amazing. No? It sounds like someone's tag line.

    And on. They are officially recognized by the temple in Fujian- I have seen rubbings of the tablets erected there. But they look curiously like the tablets that Chinese temples typically erect in honor of healthy financial donations by patrons- which begs the question. What sort of legitimacy DO these have? I should really visit the temple in Fujian and see them in person... of course, Chinese officials are absolutely incorruptible. I know this firsthand.

    But back to the interview. He's in good shape, obviously. From lifting weights. In fact, at the time he was recovering from a shoulder surgery in which they removed bone spurs, developed from lifting weights (he said it). But his secret training manual advises specifically against strength training- and instead suggests a set of Yoga-like postures with dynamic breathing called the 'I-Chin Ching' supposedly brought to the Shaolin temple by Da Mo. It even includes postures like the 'Golden Peacock.' Sin The supposedly mastered these at 7 years old. Of course, he was able to count grains of rice with superhuman perserverance and determination at 5... so...

    After the initial greetings and my acceptance of an autographed Sin The playing card, we got to business. The more I asked, the shiftier he became. In fact his avoidance of my questions, through his German/ Indonesian accent especially, was a bit unnerving. As was his hairstyle. But I'm not here to go there. So I asked him to demonstrate 'Si Meng Tao Lian.' It's an abominable way to write something that roughly means 'attacking in four directions.' I thought he would indulge me, as it's the simplest for in the Shaolin-DO canon. I believe it's the first one they're taught. Anyway, a refusal. He referred me to a younger 'Associate Master' - 2nd degree, and said that he would be able to demonstrate the form. As I insisted, he quickly put on a Hawaiin shirt and rolled out the back door. Quite quickly. But not without signing autographs for 70 or so students who had paid $100 each for an 8 hour seminar.

    But enough of this- it's time to get to your project. Because of the events of December 26th 2004, you will -NEVER- prove his lineage. Or lack thereof. The tsunami that caused so much destruction and loss of life -also- decimated Indonesia. Now his place as self-appointed lost Grandmaster of Shaolin-DO is cemented because any number of 'important' people able to prove (or disprove) his lineage have been swept out to sea, their records gone, their existence undocumented, bodies never found. Convenient, no?

    And I do not mean this with any disrespect toward the vistims of the tsunami. I have only absolute and unflagging respect for those dead and sympathy for those that suffered losses. I was at Khao San road in Bangkok three weeks ago and over the course of a few hours, looked at every picture of every person still hoped for, still missing. All people with husbands or wives or children- families. All lost in 12 seconds. Pictures of "Have you seen this man?" Or pictures of tattoos, or jewelry. All covered with little bits of red tape that say 'Search for survivors officially called off as of 4 February, 2005' It was long night.

    Back to the subject at hand. That's what I know- well, most of it. I have a bit more as well, but I hope that this helps. Good luck with the interview. Let me know how it goes.

    Cheers,
    Pumpkin King
  2. citrus538 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    146

    Posted On:
    2/24/2005 11:01am


     Style: brazilian jazz dance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller
    That's a myth perpetuated by the "Kung Fu" TV show. They didn't really brand their arms.

    As far as SD's Hua forms, the only other school I've seen teaching versions of them is http://www.littleriverkungfu.com/videos/index.html
    I looked at the hwa chuan preview and it looks like a Northern Mantis form to me, you may have some luck asking mantis instructors about it or showing them the clip.
  3. ravenink is offline
    ravenink's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    350

    Posted On:
    2/24/2005 1:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, ex mcdojo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by edward
    No, I'm not interested in poisoning myself or others to find out if it's true. Sorry. LOL

    I'd be willing to arrange a grant for this research project...
  4. edward is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    782

    Posted On:
    2/24/2005 1:24pm


     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing you've got to realize is most all people like this are frauds and fakes. Most of what is coming out of China now is just wushu forms. If you want to find Indonesian martial arts look at Silat or Mande Muda or something.

    The latest thing from China is they say they're a master of a martial art, but all they do are forms. In some cases some partner forms, but most of these so called masters have absolutely no fighting experience. Instead of looking for frauds (since they're most all frauds) you might want to try to find the ones who actually are good, instead. Of course, with the emphasis on Bullshido of ringfighting, that would be mainly sanshou and sanda people. Like Li Tai Liang, he actually fought Sanda. There's a guy down in L.A. too, Wang Shi Qing ir something like that. Tony Yang in Ohio is pretty good too.
  5. Dr. No is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arctic underground lair
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    143

    Posted On:
    2/25/2005 4:19am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "The latest thing from China is they say they're a master of a martial art, but all they do are forms. "

    I doubt it's the latest thing from china, ever had a peek of the history section...
  6. Judge Pen is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Posts
    76

    Posted On:
    3/04/2005 10:13am


     Style: shaolin-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok.

    One: "as I understand it, all schools are part of a Sin-The-Corporation-esque franchise system. He gets a percentage and dictates all the financial matters dealing with the schools. That means fees, contracts with Tiger Claw for uniforms, etc. - keeping prices artificially high"
    Sin The doesn't have a percentage in all the schools etc. He doesn't take a dime out of the tuition of my teacher's schools. He doesn't dictate financial matters or contracts with Tiger Claw. You don't know what you are talking about there my friend.

    Two: He doesn't require all his master to go to colorodo once a year. That's the Soard's area. Master Leonard has his area and Master Garry Mullins has his. GM The goes around to all the schools, but these groups keep to themselves.

    Three: His brother is off on his own and not affiliated with Sin The. There are 4 8th degrees: Both Soards, Master Leonard and Master Mullins.

    Four: "Convenient, no?" There was nothing convenient about the Tsunami.

    Five: If you were pressing me, I wouldn't show you any form either, even the most basic one.
  7. Judge Pen is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
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    76

    Posted On:
    3/04/2005 10:21am


     Style: shaolin-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A couple of more points, We do have hua shan and it is authentic as far as I've been able to compare to other schools that teach it. There's been a lot of discussion on KFO and while we can't agree on most things, there's no indication that our hua isn't the same (now where did Sin The get it from is the question that is raised after that).

    Also, if your school gave you a black in 15 months, your school stinks and your material stinks. It took me 3.5 years and that's the minimum you can go through at my school. And then you are considered just a student; before you are considered a begininer.
  8. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Posts
    5,426

    Posted On:
    3/04/2005 10:45am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK, what about the melted baby?
    Last edited by WingChun Lawyer; 3/04/2005 11:33am at .
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  9. grond is offline

    Senior Member

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    Jul 2004
    Location
    ATX
    Posts
    1,099

    Posted On:
    3/04/2005 11:12am


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Melting babies is a traditional part of chinese martial arts practice. In china it was usual for a young gung fu practitioner to melt a baby a few years into his training as a sign of his dedication to the arts. The custom has survived due to china's over-population problem. In many villages nowadays the resident gung fu man who once was relied on to protect the village and teach it's young men now just hangs around and waits for more unwanted infants to kill.
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  10. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    São Paulo, Brazil
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    5,426

    Posted On:
    3/04/2005 11:16am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    Melting babies is a traditional part of chinese martial arts practice. In china it was usual for a young gung fu practitioner to melt a baby a few years into his training as a sign of his dedication to the arts. The custom has survived due to china's over-population problem. In many villages nowadays the resident gung fu man who once was relied on to protect the village and teach it's young men now just hangs around and waits for more unwanted infants to kill.
    Such an informative post, thank you very much Grond. Good to know that the use of narcotics is widespread in the chinese gung fu community, we wing chuners (or former wing chuners, in my case) were feeling lonely as our only known junkie died long ago (even though Yip Man WAS technically a grandmaster).
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
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