228348 Bullies, 4628 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 12
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Leodom is offline

    Dad

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,146

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 5:15pm


     Style: CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Chlorine, Cholesterol, Coronaries

    Has anyone here read this book. Are there any scientists on the board (Brand?) who might review this for it's BS quotient?

    http://www.purewatergazette.net/chlorinationfox.htm


    Dr. Joseph Price, a medical doctor, wrote a fascinating book in the late 1960's entitled, Coronaries/Cholesterol/Chlorine. He states, "The basic cause of athereosclerosis, heart attacks and most forms of strokes is chlorine. The chlorine contained in processed water."

    To support this position, Dr. Price did a series of animal experiments on chickens. Within a few months, 95% of the chickens drinking chlorinated water developed athereosclerosis. To retest these results, Dr. Price divided the original control group into two groups, conducted the exact same experiment and obtained the exact same results.

    Interesting premise if true.
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  2. Deadpan Scientist is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    8,293

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 5:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it's science published in a book rather than a journal, it's probably bs.
  3. jwinch2 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    408

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 5:35pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    Has anyone here read this book. Are there any scientists on the board (Brand?) who might review this for it's BS quotient?

    http://www.purewatergazette.net/chlorinationfox.htm


    Dr. Joseph Price, a medical doctor, wrote a fascinating book in the late 1960's entitled, Coronaries/Cholesterol/Chlorine. He states, "The basic cause of athereosclerosis, heart attacks and most forms of strokes is chlorine. The chlorine contained in processed water."

    To support this position, Dr. Price did a series of animal experiments on chickens. Within a few months, 95% of the chickens drinking chlorinated water developed athereosclerosis. To retest these results, Dr. Price divided the original control group into two groups, conducted the exact same experiment and obtained the exact same results.

    Interesting premise if true.

    I am a scientist and my BS meter is off the chart with this one... I study human physiology and biochemistry and have never seen data anywhere to support this. I'm not saying that it definately is not true but I want to see data and at the minimum of a pilot study in humans.
  4. Deadpan Scientist is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    8,293

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 5:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Food Chem Toxicol. 2000;38(1 Suppl):S91-5. Related Articles, Links
    Click here to read
    Risk assessment case study--chloroform and related substances.

    Fawell J.

    WRc National Centre for Environmental Toxicology, Henley Road, Medmenham, Marlow, Bucks SL7 2HD, UK.

    Chlorine, used as an important disinfectant for drinking water, can react with naturally occurring organic matter to form chloroform, bromodichloromethane, chlorodibromomethane and bromoform. Chloroform and other trihalomethanes have been shown to increase tumours of the liver, kidney or large intestine in rats or mice. The risk to man from these contaminants must be assessed carefully since there is considerable benefit associated with the use of chlorine. The weight of evidence suggests that chloroform is non-genotoxic and there are data, for each site, to indicate that tumours only occur at high doses where there is also tissue damage. Bromodichloromethane has also been shown to increase liver and kidney tumours but this and bromoform have been shown to increase large intestinal tumours in rats. The weight of evidence is that they are only weak genotoxins and they do not appear to be active in vivo. It is probable that the mechanism for the liver and kidney tumours is the same as for chloroform but the mechanism for the large intestinal tumours is uncertain. However, the toxicity and carcinogenicity of these substances is profoundly affected by dosing in corn oil. New studies suggest that dosing in drinking water would not result in increases in tumours. The evidence suggests that the use of a threshold approach, based on a tolerable daily intake, would be the most appropriate way of determining safe levels in drinking water.

    Publication Types:

    * Review
    * Review, Tutorial


    PMID: 10717377 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    As far as I can tell from a 5 minute pubmed search, most people are more worried about cancer from CBP than heart disease.

    Not that it really matters, since you need to chlorinate the water to kill microorganisms.
  5. Te No Kage! is offline
    Te No Kage!'s Avatar

    Chemist

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,139

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 5:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    pseudo-science meant to cause fear among the general public ignorant to water chemistry and biology

    Chlorine is a poison...... at certain concentrations. Chlorine is added to drinking water to kill bacteria and the like that can cause disease. Ever heard of cholera? It's caused by Vibrio cholera, a waterborne bacteria. Chlorinated water is one of the great discoveries of all time. Countless lives have been saved due to chlorinated water (probably billions and billions). Chlorine is usually kept at a concentration of 0.5 to 4 ppm. High enough to kill the bugs but low enough as to keep from forming halomethanes. When too much chlorine is added to water, excess chlorine reacts with carbon containing compounds (any organics) to form halomethanes. Trihalomethane has been found to be cancerous in certain concentrations. BUT, chlorine levels are kept low enough (it's the law) to keep these from forming.

    The connection between chlorine and heart disease is beyond me, as much as the relation between cancer and heart disease.

    I call BS. Even if there was a slight risk of cancer/heart disease due to chlorinated water, it would still be better than not just because of the amount of deaths due to waterborne illnesses caused by pathogens in the drinking water.

    The major sympton of cholera is "rice water stool", just think about that for a second
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  6. Te No Kage! is offline
    Te No Kage!'s Avatar

    Chemist

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,139

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 6:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    on a side note, I'd be more worried about the quality and quantity of corrosion inhibitors used and the amount of metals in the water (lead/copper/iron/carbon steel pipes)

    IF I was truly worried about the quality of water I was drinking

    ALSO remember that when you buy bottled water, it's just municipal water from wherever the water was bottled, and we hope it's better water than the municipal water coming out of your tap at home, but look at it this way...... it has been stagnant for several months and the chlorine levels are low if present at all.
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  7. Xango is offline
    Xango's Avatar

    Beachy Keen

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Sweet Home
    Posts
    1,648

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 6:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Chop Socky

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chlorinated water is no longer necessary; it's a great technology but OZONE does anything you'd want Chlorine to do in terms of killing bugs. You make it from oxygen (O2), with electricity, and it breaks back down into oxygen (by way of hydrogen peroxide IIRC) in water, over time.

    That said, how did this guy test the chickens for arteriosclerosis and then use them in another experiment? I was assuming he was slaughtering them and examining the arteries...am I to believe that this guy gave his chickens chest x-rays?
    I would liken it to the boxing or the muay thai of internal kung fu, even though that's like calling apples the oranges of the apple world. --WalkOn
  8. Te No Kage! is offline
    Te No Kage!'s Avatar

    Chemist

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    3,139

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 9:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ya, and UV works too, but in most cases we know why chlorine and sodium hypochlorite are used so much......

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


    plus chlorine will stay in the water and continue to kill all the way to the farthest point -- while ozone and UV cleans it now, but then you can always pick bugs back up on the way that just live naturally in your piping (pseudomonas)
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  9. Leodom is offline

    Dad

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,146

    Posted On:
    2/17/2005 11:32pm


     Style: CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Xango
    That said, how did this guy test the chickens for arteriosclerosis and then use them in another experiment? I was assuming he was slaughtering them and examining the arteries...am I to believe that this guy gave his chickens chest x-rays?
    I got the impression that he only slaughtered half the chickens in each group the first time to check their levels of arteriosclerosis.
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  10. SamHarber is offline

    Taking a break

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bolton, Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    2,611

    Posted On:
    2/18/2005 3:56am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The website is sponsored by a company that sells water dechlorination products.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.