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  1. TaeBo_Master is offline
    TaeBo_Master's Avatar

    Certified Fitness Trainer

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2005 6:38am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, you can use the foam roll on just about any muscle. The only major one I can think of that you can't really use the foam roll for is the psoas.... because it lies deep under many other muscles. But absolutely it can be used on the adductors... I do it all the time. The adductors are a bit more challenging to keep appropriate pressure though... you have to really push your leg down. If you can find a partner to help put pressure on, it helps.
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    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

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  2. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/15/2005 6:39am

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     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My calves were always a hard one for me too. I stretched them tons, and got good flexibility in them, however my heels still wanted to raise. So for about a week I spent a good 30-45 minutes every day foam rolling them very thoroughly. Ever since.... my calves are almost perfect.
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    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

    - The Wastrel
  3. 777 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 11:19am


     Style: brawling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, it took me a few days to realise "DO NOT READ THIS" has opposite meaning.
    At first i was thinking it's some threads deemed as lame or something.



    Great work teabo on the info of stretching.

    But, i noticed u have yet to mention about stretching to attain splits.
    At least, can you recommendation some stretchings i could use to achieve the forward stretch that allows my head to touch my knees other than by doing that forward bend in a static manner and repetition (or is that actually enough already)?

    Being able to split sidewards or having my head touch my knees has always been something i wanted to achieve and to complement my TKD kickings.

    Unless, it's not healthy to the body in another manner to do the split.
    Otherwise, your advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks alot.
  4. Samfoo is offline
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    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 6:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, thanks for all the info up to this point.

    One of the hardest places for me to gain flexibility is my lower back. I've had lower back inflexibility problems since as far back as I can remember. So sitting on the floor with my legs in front of me (either in a V, or straight ahead) is near impossible. Do you have any good stretches or suggestions on loosening up a lower back?
  5. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 8:11pm


     Style: FMA & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TaeBo_Master

    However, the large majority of the fitness community still regards ballistic stretching as potentially harmful.
    I'm a little late to the part on this particular thread but I figured I would chime in.

    Only one study in the history of the known universe has been published with respect to ballistic verus static stretching and its effect on muscle damage. It was published in 1993 in Research Quarterly. It found no difference in markers for muscle damage and soreness between the two methods. Here is the abstract:



    Res Q Exerc Sport. 1993 Mar;64(1):103-7. Related Articles, Links


    The effects of static and ballistic stretching on delayed onset muscle soreness and creatine kinase.

    Smith LL, Brunetz MH, Chenier TC, McCammon MR, Houmard JA, Franklin ME, Israel RG.

    Human Performance Laboratory, East Carolina University in Greenville, NC.

    The purpose of this study was to determine if static and ballistic stretching would induce significant amounts of delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) and increases in creatine kinase (CK). Twenty males were randomly assigned to a static (STATIC) or ballistic stretching (BALLISTIC) group. All performed three sets of 17 stretches during a 90-min period, the only group difference being that STATIC remained stationary during each 60-s stretch while BALLISTIC performed bouncing movements. Subjective ratings of DOMS (scale: 1-10) and serum CK levels were assessed before and every 24 hours post stretching, for 5 days. A repeated measures ANOVA revealed a significant main effect due to time (p < 0.05), with peak soreness occurring at 24 hours after (M = 2.8 +/- 1.6). Surprisingly, a group effect (p < .05) demonstrated that DOMS was significantly greater for STATIC than for BALLISTIC. At 24 hours there was a 62% (p < .05) increase in CK for combined groups. These findings indicate that similar bouts of static and ballistic stretching induce significant increases in DOMS and CK in subjects unaccustomed to such exercise. Furthermore, static stretching induced significantly more DOMS than did ballistic.

    Publication Types:
    Clinical Trial
    Randomized Controlled Trial

    PMID: 8451526 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
  6. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2005 8:27pm


     Style: FMA & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TaeBo_Master
    No harm in doing some good PNF stretching before competing, as long as you're warmed up so you don't risk the muscle tearing, and just don't go quite as hard with it. Use it to limber up the joints and get your ROM up, but don't try to push new heights of flexibility.
    Most availible data on static or PNF streching prior to activity shows that it dramatically decreases your performance with respect to strength, power, and local muscular endurance. I will post a few examples below:

    Faigenbaum et al. 2005
    60 children, mean age 11.3 years old
    Vertical jump and shuttle run performance declined significantly following stretching.
    Long jump performance was significantly reduced following the stretch.

    Nelson et al. 2005
    22 college age subjects
    24% decline in muscular endurance following stretching

    Decrease In Bench Press Power and Velocity
    (McClellan et al. 2000)

    Decrease in sprint performance
    (Fletcher and Jones, 2004)

    Acute stretching negatively impacts balance, reaction time, and movement time
    (Behm et al. 2004)

    Stretching inhibits jumping performance
    (Young and Behm, 2003)

    Behm et al. 2001
    12% decrease in force output in stretch group
    11.7% decrease in max iEMG activity in stretch group
    Control group: No change

    Young & Behm, 2002
    Static Stretching vs. Active warm-up
    Results indicate that static stretching had a negative influence on explosive force and jumping performance variables
    Concentric Jump Height - Decreased
    Drop Jump Height Decreased
    RFD - Decreased
    Peak Force - Decreased
    Contact Time - Increased


    Plus, it does little or nothing to prevent acute injuries:

    Van Mechelen, et al., 1993
    Stretching before running was not associated with running injuries.

    Pope, et al., 2000
    No evidence that pre-exercise stretching reduces injury risk.

    Lindstrom, et al., 1999
    Suggested that pre-exercise stretching has no preventative effect on muscular soreness, tenderness following exercise.

    Askling, et al., 2002
    Indicated that stretching could induce severe strain injuries.

    Herbert & Gabriel, 2002
    Systematic review: Stretching before or after exercise does not offer protection from muscle soreness. Stretching before activity does not present a practical useful reduction in the risk of injury.

    Shrier, 1999
    Review found stretching not shown to reduce injury


    The proper time to stretch, OTHER THAN DYNAMICALLY, is post workout or post activity...

    Kokkonen et al. MSSE 29:S63 (2001)
    parameters for strength and power improved by post exercise chronic stretching over a 10 week period


    For pre exercise or competition warm-up use a dynamic warm-up routine...

    Stewart et al. 2003
    Power output increased by 7%

    Fletcher and Jones, 2004
    Improved Sprint Performance

    Young and Behm, 2003
    Increased Force Production
    Improved Jump Height

    Increased Range of Motion
    (Rosenbaum & Hennig 1995)

    Increased Muscle Temperature
    (Gray & Nimmo 2001)

    Potentiation of H-Reflex
    (Trimble & Harp 1998)

    Increased Force Rise Rate
    (Rosenbaum & Hennig 1995)


    There, now that I have succeeded in pissing everyone off, I'll shut up now...

    Jason
  7. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 8:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2
    Most availible data on static or PNF streching prior to activity shows that it dramatically decreases your performance with respect to strength, power, and local muscular endurance.
    I noticed this years ago, before I ever heard anybody talk about it. For me, it was extremely noticeable with lifting, running and swimming.

    However, my question is does stretching pre-activity reduce your chances of injury, or is that just a myth? When I say injury, I'm referring to muscles and joints (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, etc.).
  8. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2005 8:50am


     Style: FMA & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2

    Plus, it does little or nothing to prevent acute injuries:

    Van Mechelen, et al., 1993
    Stretching before running was not associated with running injuries.

    Pope, et al., 2000
    No evidence that pre-exercise stretching reduces injury risk.

    Lindstrom, et al., 1999
    Suggested that pre-exercise stretching has no preventative effect on muscular soreness, tenderness following exercise.

    Askling, et al., 2002
    Indicated that stretching could induce severe strain injuries.

    Herbert & Gabriel, 2002
    Systematic review: Stretching before or after exercise does not offer protection from muscle soreness. Stretching before activity does not present a practical useful reduction in the risk of injury.

    Shrier, 1999
    Review found stretching not shown to reduce injury

    LOL, I guess you didn't read this part Lawdog...

    Later,

    Jason
  9. tasteofmycheez is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2005 2:12am


     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've read the same thing in Men's Health and other various health websites.
  10. FighterJones is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2005 10:42am


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW..TBM what do you think of Thomas Kurz's methods?
    I downloaded a tape for stretching and following it after only a week I'm starting to see results. Deals with relaxed stretches,isometric, dynamic stretches mainly, but not just the stretches, but the exercises that strenghten the legs and hip flexors and stuff too.
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