2/16/2005 12:18pm, #11Originally Posted by ronin69
2/16/2005 12:22pm, #12
2/16/2005 12:24pm, #13Originally Posted by ronin69
2/16/2005 12:30pm, #14
2/16/2005 12:31pm, #15
I think it's **** stirring myself.
I so happen to think yrkoon9 as a good poster. He and I may have divergent views, as I have studied under Ryron at Torrance, but he is entitled to them.
Just as I think Laimon ran from the fight.
It's what makes Bullshido great.Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
2/16/2005 12:35pm, #16Originally Posted by Anthony
I have yet to see the video
2/16/2005 12:36pm, #17Originally Posted by ronin69
K guys htis is the 411. Helio or Rorion (not sure which) tried to get the rules changed before the fight. I walked in like 5 mins into the convo so Im not sure how the rules got brought up. Anyways they wanted a no time limit submission only match. Marc said that this was unacceptable since they had already decided BEFORE hand that it would be a 30 min time limit under the IGJJF (I think) rules. They went at it back and forth for a pretty good time. It even got to the point to where Rorion sugested that the point limit be raised from 12 to 50!
IN the end this was how the rules were decided. 20 min match, 15 point limit and points would be counted for AFTER the match. Meaning that if in the 6 min mark you're up 15-0 match still continues till either time expires or someone gets submitted. NOW heres where it gets tricky. You get adwarded 1 point for a take down. 3 points for side control. IF someone was playing their guard and after 3 mins the guy coudnt pass the guys guard they would get switced top to bottom and the guy on bottom would recieve 1 point. And heres where the coin flipping came in. If on the feet neither guy was engaging they stoped the match and they flipped a coin. Winner picked top position or bottom position (both starting in the guard).
Now heres how the match went from MY point of view. Laimon took Ryron down with an armdrag and he landed in side control (or maybe he passed off it) either way he ended up in side control. So he got adwarded 4 points. 1 for the take down 3 for side control. From here Ryron recovered and a few mins later Marc got side control again giving him a score of 7-0. They got to their feet and the "coin toss" came into play. Ryron got put in his closed guard and Marc couldnt pass within the 3 min time limit. so they switched top to bottom and gave Ryron 1 point. Score 7-1 in favor of laimon. Marc went for an armdrag from his closed guard and thats when Ryron attacked him with an ankle lock. It took marc a few spins to get out of it but he got out. Everyone was going wild!
Laimon ends up in Ryrons closed guard and Marc picks him up and slams him 2 times in a row. WHICH was LEGAL under the rules. Some how they had a scramble and Marc got kicked in his nuts. Marc took some recovery time. Match restarts and Ryron is in his guard and Marc couldnt pass within the 3 min so they switched top to bottom and gave ryron a point. Score 7-2 Laimon. MArc is playing his guard and he just stood up and got back to his feet. They had a few more scramlbes and Ryron went for a 2 other leg locks but non of them were close (Thats what Marc said after the match). Time expired and laimon won 7-2. It was an awesome match and the atmoshpere inside the gym was AMAZING!
2/16/2005 12:37pm, #18
Posted by Goatfury on jiujitsugear.com/forum
The Superfight: Marc Laimon vs. Ryron Gracie
In a huge fight, Laimon and Gracie agreed to fight under Gracie Tournament rules- a 20-minute match, points would only count at the end (if there was no submission), and slamming was allowed from the guard. Points were awarded for: 1 point for a takedown, 3 points for side control (whether acheived through a guard pass or from a takedown/sweep), 1 point for a sweep (reversal from the guard), 4 points for mount or rear mount with hooks.
As an interesting variation from normal Grapplers Quest rules, the Gracie rules stated that if one fighter couldn't pass the guard within two minutes, the bottom fighter would be awarded one point and the positions would switch, so that the fighter on the bottom would be on top in the other fighter's guard.
Another variation stated that if there was inactivity on the feet, the referree would stop the match and toss a coin. The winner would choose whether to try to pass the guard, or to defend the guard.
An incredibly packed Durango High School Gym crowd sat on the edge of their seats as Ryron Gracie entered the gym, sporting a T-shirt and board shorts. Ryron historically has fought only with the gi, so this was an interesting twist for fans. Marc Laimon entered and displayed good energy, jumping around and warming up.
Pat "Hawk" Hardy was chosen as head referree, and the match got underway.
Tentative stalking by both guys began for the first minute and a half, with both Laimon and Gracie engaging with cautious aggression. In a fast and technical movement, Laimon caught an arm drag right into a low-single for the takedown, right into side control. The score was 4-0 at this point for Laimon.
Ryron quickly recovered an open guard, and transitioned into a De La Riva-style open guard. Good transitions by both fighters as Laimon worked to pass, Ryron defended well. Ryron scooted his hips under Laimon and went for an ankle lock (a trademark of his brother, Rener), which Laimon defended well. As though an instant replay was playing for the crowd, Ryron again went for the ankle lock, and Laimon once again stepped out of the attack.
Raphael Lovato, Jr coached Laimon on from the side. As two minutes passed with Ryron on his back, the fighters switched positions. Now Laimon would start from his back with Ryron in his guard.
Laimon picked butterfly guard and did something somewhat surprising here: he stood up. At this point in the match, about five minutes had passed. Both fighters squared off and nobody could get any takedowns, so Hawk tossed the coin (see the above stated Gracie rules). Ryron won the coin toss, and selected the top position.
Once again, Laimon chose butterfly guard, and once again he stood up immediately. The fighters went to work on their feet, and there was once again little action, so Hawk tossed the coin once again, and this time Laimon won. He picked the top position.
Ryron elected the closed guard, and as the match began, Laimon picked Ryron up.... and SLAMMED him hard onto the mat. Ryron managed to keep his composure and keep his guard closed. So Laimon once again picked him up and slammed him again, landing with his forearm right in Ryron's throat. This time Ryron opened his gaurd immediately, wary of a third slam. Laimon went to work, and passed the open guard immediately, going to side control for 3 more points.
The score at this point was 7-1 in Laimon's favor. As Ryron worked to recover the guard, Laimon caught an inadvertent Ryron Gracie foot to the crotch. As Laimon writhed in agony, holding his crotch, Gumby from OntheMat.com filmed the agony.
After a three minute pause, the fight resumed on the feet. Laimon appeared to be working a standing cross choke using Ryron's T-shirt, or perhaps just to make space. At any rate, there was not enough action for the referree, so Hawk once again tossed the coin. Ryron won, picked the top position.
This time Laimon did not stand, but attempted a sweep, which looked to be successful... but it was right into Ryron's ankle lock. The ankle lock appeared to be extremely tight, and the crowd tensely leaned forward to cheer on the action. Laimon rolled with the ankle lock, and Gracie rolled with him three or four times... great action. Finally Ryron released the ankle lock, and both fighters stood. After a minute or so with no action, the coin was once again tossed, and Ryron won the toss, picking the top again.
Laimon immediately stood up, Ryron pulled guard, and went right into another footlock from the bottom! This one appeared to be very tight again, but Laimon was able to escape. As Ryron's guard opened up after the escape, Laimon was able to secure both arms under the legs of Ryron and work the guard pass... but instead of attempting to finish the pass, Ryron picked up Gracie and slammed him on his head two times. The slams didn't seem to have nearly as much effect as the earlier closed guard slams. As the two minutes ran out, Ryron was awarded another point, and the positions switched.
The score at this point in the match was 7-2 in favor of Laimon.
Laimon stood up immediately, and after no takedown on the feet, the coin was tossed again, Laimon won and selected the top position. With just 3 minutes left in the match, Laimon stepping away from Ryron's footlock attempts and Ryron attacking, time ticking away, Ryron chose to stand up. After a minute or so of inactivity, Ryron won another coin toss and picked the top position. Laimon picked butterfly guard with just seconds left. Time ran out and Laimon celebrated.
Visit my site ( www.BJJnews.com ) for as many results as I could get if you have time.
2/16/2005 12:41pm, #19
The match is like $10 online. I'm still trying to find more on that.
2/16/2005 12:41pm, #20Originally Posted by Anthony
1. Ryron didn't get robbed. He was beat fair and square under a ruleset insisted upon by Ryron's camp. (See 2)
2. Yes, they DO. The match was officiated using IGJJF rules, coin tosses and all. Far from "no points, no time limit".
3. Marc took Ryron down and passed his guard. How is that running?
CONCLUSION: Ryron got beat fair and square. I thought that Laimon did a great job in using the rules to his advantage. More power to him.
And yes, I was there.