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  1. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 3:23am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Static stretching is like doing the splits.... you hold a stretch for a prolonged period of time without movement.

    Dynamic stretching would be like doing 100 stretch kicks. You dynamically move a joint through the range of motion repeatedly, trying to go a little farther each time.
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  2. feedback is offline
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    UAAAH!

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 5:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I CAN KICK OVER ANYONES HEAD, DEAD COLD. WOOO YEAH *GIVES SELF A HIGH FIVE*

    That's not even sarcastic parody. I don't even know anymore.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
  3. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 7:59am

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TBM, how would that definition of dynamic contrast with ballistic stretching?
  4. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 9:14am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_steve
    TBM, how would that definition of dynamic contrast with ballistic stretching?
    Yuck, you stretch your balls?

    Seriously, reading your post @ hitting a 5'9" person, I'd consider changing your methods myself. What got me changing mine were reading Bullshido, listening to my brother who was into marathon running and knew about the harmfull effects of stretching, and hitting the bag w/o as a warmup and a workout w/o any stretching at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by feedback
    I CAN KICK OVER ANYONES HEAD, DEAD COLD. WOOO YEAH *GIVES SELF A HIGH FIVE*

    That's not even sarcastic parody. I don't even know anymore.
    Not everyone, just little guys like you.
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 2/16/2005 9:18am at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  5. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 9:23am

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     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My wam up consist of running, push-ups, situps and a light stretching. It gives me quite a work out, which is a good thing since it is an important part of my cardio, since I have no time to do any more exercise, apart from weights.

    A light stretching reduces the risk of injury, there is a difference between a light strectching and elongation (dunno if that´s the word in english). with the first one your preapring your muscle, with the second one you´r trying to improve your flexibility.
  6. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 9:25am


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    samurai steve- try the dynamic stretching, you should be able to reach height sooner than statically.

    For example, start a front leg swing (like a front kick without the snap), start with a few swing to about knee height, then increase to about thigh height, then to waist and son.
    Do the same thing with crescent kick motions and back kicks.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  7. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 9:48am

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My warmup consists of 5 reps of 60%. I only stretch my calves and quads after squats, so my shins don't shoot off like release valves. I can still do pretty kicks and Axe kick, as to why I'd want to? Who knows.
  8. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 9:54am


     Style: FMA & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright, I have been trying to stay out of this but I have to get involved a little bit.

    To set this up, I am a ph.d. student at LSU majoring in Skeletal Muscle Physiology and Tissue Biomechanics. Much of my research revolves around stretching and flexibility and its effect on performance and injury. In addition to my research and teaching, I strength coach at the collegiate level, and have taken multiple athletes to national and international level powerlifting competitions.

    So, now that you know where I am coming from: I am going to cut and paste some actual studies published in PEER REVIEWED scientific journals related to the topic before I sum things up... The following is from a lecture I put together for an Exercise Testing and Prescription course that I teach at LSU.

    Behm et al. 2001
    Stretching (n=12) and control (n=12) groups
    Pre test, stretch, post 5 minutes, post 10 minutes
    Peak Force
    Max EMG
    12% decrease in force output in stretch group
    11.7% decrease in max iEMG activity in stretch group
    Control group: No change

    Young & Behm, 2002
    Static Stretching vs. Active warm-up
    16 Subjects (13 male and 3 female)
    Multiple testing days – All subjects performed all protocols
    Run only day
    Static stretch day
    Sub-maximal run + practice jumps
    Run + stretch + practice jumps
    Results indicate that static stretching had a negative influence on explosive force and jumping performance variables
    Concentric Jump Height - Decreased
    Drop Jump Height – Decreased
    RFD - Decreased
    Peak Force - Decreased
    Contact Time - Increased

    Decrease In Bench Press Power and Velocity following stretching
    (McClellan et al. 2000)

    Decreased EMG
    (Halbertsma et al. 1996)

    Decreased Motor neuron Excitation
    (Guissard et al. 2001)

    Decrease in sprint performance
    (Fletcher and Jones, 2004)

    Bjorkland et al. 2001
    Decrease in stretch sensation after treatment (supervised stretching) Sensory adaptations “tolerance” mechanism as no effect on measured ROM

    Halbertsma, et al. 1996
    Static stretching (10-min) significant increase in passive muscle movement, ROM, theorized increased ROM b/c of increased stretch tolerance

    Zuberbier et al. 2001
    No relationship between ROM and injury in the low back

    Emory et al. 2001
    No relationship between ROM and rate of groin injuries in hockey players

    Watson, 2001
    No relationship between injury rate and ROM in elite soccer players

    Boden et al. 2000
    Above average hamstring flexibility correlated with ACL injuries

    Tyler et al., 2002
    Adductor flexibility was not associated with occurrence of adductor strains.

    Pope, et al., 2000
    No evidence that pre-exercise stretching reduces injury risk.

    Lindstrom, et al., 1999
    Suggested that pre-exercise stretching has no preventative effect on muscular soreness, tenderness, and force loss following eccentric exercise.

    Askling, et al., 2002
    Indicated that stretching could induce severe strain injuries in dancers.

    Herbert & Gabriel, 2002
    Systematic review: Stretching before or after exercise does not offer protection from muscle soreness. Stretching before activity does not present a practical useful reduction in the risk of injury.

    Shrier, 1999
    Review found stretching not shown to reduce injury

    The results drawn from these studies lead to the following conclusions:

    Acute stretching appears to negatively impact force and power production along with neuromuscular activity

    Acute stretching may increase range of motion – Unclear if the change is physiological or psychological

    Acute stretching seems to contribute to a decrease in performance of dynamic activities

    Stretching may not prevent injury and in some instances may in fact encourage it

    Optimal level of strength seems to be a more accurate predictor of injury rates than ROM/flexibility

    Recommendation?

    Active Warm-up Pre activity and moderate stretching post activity!

    Stewart et al. 2003
    Purpose: To examine the effect of active warm-up on MVC, surface EMG, and power output
    Results
    Power output increased by 7%
    Other variables – No change

    Improved Sprint Performance
    Fletcher and Jones, 2004

    Increased Range of Motion
    (Rosenbaum & Hennig 1995)

    Increased Muscle Temperature
    (Gray & Nimmo 2001)

    Potentiation of H-Reflex
    (Trimble & Harp 1998)

    Increased Force Rise Rate
    (Rosenbaum & Hennig 1995)


    Now, I am sure that I just stirred up a whole S#@t storm with this but it needed to be said.

    We often talk about our arts being "scientific arts". The only way to be scientific is to actually use scientific data to further the development of what we do in MA.

    Hope this helps someone!

    Jason
    Last edited by jwinch2; 2/16/2005 10:10am at .
  9. Carbon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 11:22am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How does stretching increase the chance of injury? That is the only question I would like answered.
    I'll make one when I can find one I like.
  10. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 11:37am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ballistic stretching is moving to the maximum range of motion and then doing small bounces to try to push farther into the stretch. Dynamic stretching moves through the entire range of motion.
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    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

    - The Wastrel
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