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  1. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:23am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are going to end up mounted a lot.
    And by a lot I mean always.
  2. Olly is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:31am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I got mounted the first time I tried it after he slipped his foot out, but I escaped by holding his tricep, bridging and rolling over, and ended back in his guard.

    So, I want to work on my positioning as much as possible. Don't I need a goal for a position I want to end up in. If I wasn't planning on trying to sub him what positions should I be trying for?
  3. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:33am

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     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I recommend picking up Mastering Jujitsu by Renzo Gracie. It will give you a great introduction of what we mean by "position" and which ones to fight for.
  4. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:35am

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Olly
    So, I want to work on my positioning as much as possible. Don't I need a goal for a position I want to end up in. If I wasn't planning on trying to sub him what positions should I be trying for?
    No no, of course you want to submit people, but only after you are at least in sidemount or better. Half-guard is a tricky game for beginners so I left that out. Also, at your level you should stay away from leg locks because you can injure people too easily if you do ever get one to work, and then you'll probably get thrown in the dumpster out back by the guy who's ACL you just ripped.
  5. Olly is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:36am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks Aesopian, I'll take a look.

    So would people really not recommend going for any submissions, even if the opportunity presents itself.
  6. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:38am

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The fact is that with three classes to your credit you won't be submitting most people. Start by learning escapes from bad positions and basic chokes / arm locks, then work on improving your position, THEN submit people.
  7. Olly is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:39am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Missed your post Shuma-Gorath.

    Ankle locks and heel hooks are the only submission I have been taught in detail so far, so that's what I went for. I knew heel hooks where pretty dangerous and I'll make sure I'm very careful if I ever do get an ankle lock on.
  8. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:41am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Off hand hierarchy of positions:
    • Back mount, faces down.
      Back mount, faces up.
      Mount
      Side control*
      halfmount
      having them in your guard
      in their guard
      'in' the above


    If none of this makes sense, stop talking to internet ghosts and talk to your training partners and coach.






    *Knee on stomach probably fits in here somewhere. I'll let someone who actually knows what they're doing argue whether that's actually a position or a transitional point.
    Last edited by Dochter; 2/15/2005 11:43am at .
  9. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:49am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's what you're running into Olly.

    You asked an ankle lock question which we were happy enough to address, assuming you were at least a moderately educated grappler.

    As the discussion progressed, you started dropping clues that you have no idea what's going on, most obviously with your guess about what passing the guard is. That's why I asked how many classes you've been to. It was pretty clear it wasn't many.

    We are also finding it weird that you would learn leg locks as your first submissions, as they tend to be "advanced", both because of their excution often making you lose position, and because of their potential for injury.

    Now we're not trying to begrudge your current training and we're all quite happy you've started taking lessons, but in all honesty, three classes is nothing. You'll get better results going to class over asking some general questions about submissions on a forum.

    We also don't like Bullshido being the "go to" place for people with a week of training who can't wait to just get real instruction from their teacher.
  10. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2005 11:51am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those with more experience feel free to tell me to shut the hell up. Given that I only took up bjj a little over a year ago I've put a lot of thought into how I learned and was taught and what may have been a little more efficient.
    The two main conclusions I've made are that
    1)In live rolling I really shouldn't have been trying for a sub from any position until I'd held it for some set amount of time (say 30 secs)
    2) The importance of drilling techniques can't be overstated (even though I still don't drill much at all).

    I'm pretty sure since I don't pick up things super quickly that those two things would have had me learning much more quickly and that my basics and subs would be much better for it now too. That's why I'm saying don't even try subs at this point, do but keep in mind that position is most important. That's where you launch subs from, that's where you strike from. If you screw up a sub attempt and end up in guard, what have you gained? Not a damn thing.
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