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  1. couch13 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2007 8:26pm


     Style: TKD, Boxing & SW

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    there is much confusion on the jkd issue. so sorry to break it to everyone, but anything you learn in a jkd school isn't what bruce was moving towards. joe lewis said in an interview that bruce was becoming something different that what anyone teaches. bruce was becoming a neo-muay thai fighter (means muay thai with shorin-ryu kicks and boxing punches with aspects of judo and catch wrestling). jkd was definatly becoming like mma, but no instructor teaches the way he was going himself. for the interview http://www.mikemiles.com/lewis.html
  2. Askari Hodari is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2007 10:11pm


     Style: CLF, Capoeira, etc.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by couch13
    there is much confusion on the jkd issue. so sorry to break it to everyone, but anything you learn in a jkd school isn't what bruce was moving towards. joe lewis said in an interview that bruce was becoming something different that what anyone teaches. bruce was becoming a neo-muay thai fighter (means muay thai with shorin-ryu kicks and boxing punches with aspects of judo and catch wrestling). jkd was definatly becoming like mma, but no instructor teaches the way he was going himself. for the interview http://www.mikemiles.com/lewis.html
    Interesting article. Inosanto often invites instructors in a whole range of styles (bjj, mt, etc.) and probably in this way approaches where joe lewis says Bruce Lee was headed.
  3. bad credit is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2007 8:42pm


     Style: MMA, JKD philosophy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm, that was an interesting article. Joe Lewis has always talked a lot of smack, and I wonder how much of it is true. I get a kick out of how he talks about side on stances. I'd love to see him spar Bas Rutten with his "head on" stance. From personal experience I'll say that Bas is right on about it being safer against grapplers.

    I also love Joe's comments about the Gracies. Says he's a fighter, but he won't take challenges? Then says he'd bite a Gracie to beat them? Then he says they're awesome at grappling, but not so good at standup or throws. That may have been true once, but this interview was done in 98?
  4. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2007 9:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You'd think the JKD scene would adore Lewis, as he is one of the few verifable badasses to take up that mantle. Bullshitery aside, hes a tough old bastard who can (could) really fucking fight.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  5. aaaargh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2007 11:52am


     Style: Inept BJJer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Notice the book is called "Ground fighting" and the author is Alan Ground... so even if you don't learn ground fighting, you still learn Ground fighting.
  6. thehorned1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 7:43am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To clear up this issue, what Jeet Kune Do schools teach these days is not really Jeet Kune Do. Matt Thornton said it in an interview, they don't do alive training. In the Tao of JKD Bruce writes that a lot of JKD schools will pop up because of the book, and people will start teaching JKD like it is a style, which it isn't. It's a more about the philosophy and principles of martial art.

    What a lot of JKD schools teach nowadays is Jun Fan Gung Fu, Thai Boxing, Kali, Silat and Wing Chun. The forst two there are the only ones that don't ring any alarm bells, and hadn't Bruce moved on from Jun Fan Gung Fu before he died?

    If Bruce was alive today I think JKD would be very like MMA, perhaps with some stop hits and biting and finger-snapping etc., but basically MMA, as MMA is the natural progression of true martial art, which has evolved solely by pitting different styles against each other to see what works. SBG is into the philosphy of evolving MA and using what works, and they basically teach MMA.
  7. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 8:07am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Essentially the problem with JKD is that it should not exist as a codified system. My day to day training is geared for a specific purpose and my JKD refelcts that. This means there is an emphasis on restraint, entry, punches, stick (baton), Incapacitants (CS & Tazer) and firearms (handgun and shotgun).

    Bruce did not teach firearms, but the JKD philosophy/approach can be applied to the use thereof. I pressure test (speed drills, lights and sirens, simmunitions) and skill develop (accuracy shoots, drills, programs). I chose a stance that suits me and gives the best results (Chapman stance) and it is now a part of my personal arsenal. I call that a part of my JKD

    Now , the issue arises when people come trotting along with a book that is a compilation of notes Bruce wrote over 35 years ago and start using it as "the way" or"this is JKD"...it isn't. JKD is very much about the PERSONAL journey towards your martial goals. Wanna be an MMA star? Great! Train in MT, BJJ, Wrestling and blend them as you see fit. It will be different for each person but you still ened up with a product that works (compare the styles of Bas to Chuck to Hughes to GSP etc - all good, all different).

    JKD has unfortunatley become another robot factory - which is one of the reasons I also have another "style" in my field. JKD is a process, not a system. Anyone that believes Bruce would still be training the same today as he did back in the day is deluded.

    "Don't concentrate on the finger...."

    Taking the groundfighting example, it is absolutely correct that a grappler can be negated by a biter or gouger. However, that boter or gouger must have a level of ability in grappling to start with or there is not a delivery system in place. A bit like having a handfull of .44 bullets and no gun - theoretically deadly but essentially useless.

    To address a couple of points raised by individuals, Upa - McVicker's MA Academy is a damn good school (CU, Illinois)

    Knutorious - MMA fighters all look and fight in a similar manner becaise that is a distillation of effective fighting technique (i.e. the core of JKD). The fact you cannot see that means you have not really grasped Bruce's words - reading and understanding are not the same thing
  8. Askari Hodari is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 10:29am


     Style: CLF, Capoeira, etc.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanniballistic
    Essentially the problem with JKD is that it should not exist as a codified system. My day to day training is geared for a specific purpose and my JKD refelcts that. This means there is an emphasis on restraint, entry, punches, stick (baton), Incapacitants (CS & Tazer) and firearms (handgun and shotgun).

    Bruce did not teach firearms, but the JKD philosophy/approach can be applied to the use thereof. I pressure test (speed drills, lights and sirens, simmunitions) and skill develop (accuracy shoots, drills, programs). I chose a stance that suits me and gives the best results (Chapman stance) and it is now a part of my personal arsenal. I call that a part of my JKD

    Now , the issue arises when people come trotting along with a book that is a compilation of notes Bruce wrote over 35 years ago and start using it as "the way" or"this is JKD"...it isn't. JKD is very much about the PERSONAL journey towards your martial goals. Wanna be an MMA star? Great! Train in MT, BJJ, Wrestling and blend them as you see fit. It will be different for each person but you still ened up with a product that works (compare the styles of Bas to Chuck to Hughes to GSP etc - all good, all different).

    JKD has unfortunatley become another robot factory - which is one of the reasons I also have another "style" in my field. JKD is a process, not a system. Anyone that believes Bruce would still be training the same today as he did back in the day is deluded.

    "Don't concentrate on the finger...."

    Taking the groundfighting example, it is absolutely correct that a grappler can be negated by a biter or gouger. However, that boter or gouger must have a level of ability in grappling to start with or there is not a delivery system in place. A bit like having a handfull of .44 bullets and no gun - theoretically deadly but essentially useless.

    To address a couple of points raised by individuals, Upa - McVicker's MA Academy is a damn good school (CU, Illinois)

    Knutorious - MMA fighters all look and fight in a similar manner becaise that is a distillation of effective fighting technique (i.e. the core of JKD). The fact you cannot see that means you have not really grasped Bruce's words - reading and understanding are not the same thing
    I thought about bringing up McVicker's program. I think that its quite progressive too.
  9. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 10:37am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jack is one of the most awesome individuals I have had the pleasure of training with and is exactly what JKD should be about.
  10. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 1:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The exception that proves the rule?
    Regardless, the person to whom I was responding clearly didn't know what the **** they were talking about.
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