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  1. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so far all I have achieved is thunder from my ass

    BTW the last post in this thread before you posted is a year old.

    And others will point out the straw man flaws in the whole "Uncle Vinnie birck to the back of the head" arguments against taking the fight to the ground and ground fighting and such.

    Personaly I just don't care
  2. Skillful is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:11am


     Style: Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex8876
    Yeah BJJ is great on the ground, but what if you are Mounted on a guy trying to beat his face in, and his Uncle Vinnie runs around the corner and Clocks you in the head with a BRICK? Lights out.
    What if you're throwing chain punches and some dude's aunt Sally hits you over the head with a frying pan? False argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex8876
    Or, what if you have a guy in your guard and he pulls out a knife? Sure you could Armbar the guy but it would be much easier for him to stab you at that point than for you to get his arm.
    If you have the guy in your guard, it's probably because he took you down or was able to get on top. Better to have him in your guard than on side control or mounted, smashing your face (and d34dly eye-gouging and hair pulling, tickling, and name-calling). Choices from the guard besides hunting for submission include sweeping (changing who's on top from him to you) and making space and getting up. It's the non-grappler who's stuck on the bottom, not the grappler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex8876
    I'm not saying that you shouldnt know how to grapple, but it is much safer to defend against the takedown and stay on your feet.
    You're not saying you shouldn't know how to grapple, but it is much safer to grapple?
    Last edited by Skillful; 11/03/2008 8:13am at .
  3. Alex8876 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:27am


     Style: Wing Chun Gung Fu/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Skillful
    What if you're throwing chain punches and some dude's aunt Sally hits you over the head with a frying pan? False argument.



    If you have the guy in your guard, it's probably because he took you down or was able to get on top. Better to have him in your guard than on side control or mounted, smashing your face (and d34dly eye-gouging and hair pulling, tickling, and name-calling). Choices from the guard besides hunting for submission include sweeping (changing who's on top from him to you) and making space and getting up. It's the non-grappler who's stuck on the bottom, not the grappler.



    You're not saying you shouldn't know how to grapple, but it is much safer to grapple?

    If you 're throwing Chain Punches, and someone runs up behind you, you have the option of Kicking them and then getting out from between them, where you can be hit from behind. If you're on the ground, you dont have the mobility to avoid an attack from someone who unexpectedly runs up on you. Granted, you could still be cracked in the back of the head while standing, but at least you have a better chance of defending yourself on your feet, and/or using footwork to evade.

    The point with the guard thing is that on the street if the guy pulls a knife, are you really going to be able to do anything from that position before he picks you like 20 times?

    Avoiding the Takedown doesnt necessarily have to be done using a grapplers defense against it. You could knee the guy in the face for example. You could Pendulum shuffle backwards and front kick his face as he shoots down. Of course, the Sprawl will work in a pinch, but you dont have to always use grappling to defend against grappling.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:30am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex8876
    I dunno about MMA being more Refined than JKD (Jun Fan JKD).... This all depends on whether or not MMA uses the same ideas of Science and physics that JKD does. For Example, the Intercepting punch is based on throwing your weight up through your legs, forward, through the rotation of your hips into your lead right fist.

    When i watch UFC, it mostly seems as if they are just swinging and basically not being that scientific with the striking.

    Yeah BJJ is great on the ground, but what if you are Mounted on a guy trying to beat his face in, and his Uncle Vinnie runs around the corner and Clocks you in the head with a BRICK? Lights out. Or, what if you have a guy in your guard and he pulls out a knife? Sure you could Armbar the guy but it would be much easier for him to stab you at that point than for you to get his arm. This is why Groundfighting on the street is kinda dangerous.

    I'm not saying that you shouldnt know how to grapple, but it is much safer to defend against the takedown and stay on your feet.


    Oh, and BTW, i'm sorry for the bullshido i posted in the past. As Bruce Lee once said "I have found the cause of my own ignorance". JKD is not Invincible, and i'm gonna stop acting like it is. I do think it is very effective however, if you learn it from the right guy, like Tim Tackett or Lamar Davis, or say.... Taky Kimura.
    For all the other posters familiar with HiThere's posts, is this another case of trigonometry-fu?

    For Alex8876: what's your educational background? We don't get to qualify things as "scientific", "unscientific" or "X art is less/more scientific than Y art" unless we actually have a good understanding of science in general and physics, sports science and human anatomy in particular.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:36am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    About a year ago, while searching on google for ideas on building club bells, I ran into this video of a guy explaining how to make one out of steel pipes.

    Then, a *cough, cough* Scott Sonnon-certified clubbell expert came to criticize the home-made clubbell in the video, that, unlike the Sonnon-certified clubbells, this one was made unscientifically and as a result, (and I quote verbatin) it was missing the center of mass.

    The people who talk the most about science are the charlatans who don't know **** about it.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. v1y is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:56am


     Style: Internet Warrior, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex8876
    I dunno about MMA being more Refined than JKD (Jun Fan JKD).... This all depends on whether or not MMA uses the same ideas of Science and physics that JKD does. For Example, the Intercepting punch is based on throwing your weight up through your legs, forward, through the rotation of your hips into your lead right fist.
    So basically what you're saying is that ALL mma fighters are stupid because if they were rational they would spend more (any?) time perfecting (working on?) this technique, right?

    That, or the technique is not what you claim to be.

    I mean, you could be right, it could theoretically revolutionize the fight game -- but it's about occam's razor. The mere fact that nobody has come in with this technique to 'dominate everyone' is sufficient evidence to believe (for the time being) that it is not what you claim.
  7. Alex8876 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:59am


     Style: Wing Chun Gung Fu/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    For all the other posters familiar with HiThere's posts, is this another case of trigonometry-fu?

    For Alex8876: what's your educational background? We don't get to qualify things as "scientific", "unscientific" or "X art is less/more scientific than Y art" unless we actually have a good understanding of science in general and physics, sports science and human anatomy in particular.
    I'm in college, and I took College level Physics last semester. Look, i'm not gonna act like i did much better than average in it, but i have a pretty good understanding of the physics behind striking. It's relatively simple.

    Basically the power behind the Striking in MMA (which is pretty much slugging, from what i can recall) is based on lobbing punches, basically just using the body's natural mechanisms of whirling the shoulders, maybe combined with the use of the legs in stepping forward. It can work...it's just not as efficient.

    JKD strikes use those same mechanisms, but launch the strikes with much less telegraphing, in that the strikes dont have any preperatory motions like a lot of MMA/Boxing/Kickboxing strikes, and they are thrown from the center, rather than the Shoulder level, which contributes to their being harder to see coming.

    Also, they tend to retract back on the same line they flew out from, which leaves less openings to exploit and shortens the recovery time quite a bit.

    In addition to the Shoulder Whirl, JKD strikes also use the rotation of the hips and feet to add power. The only fundamental difference is that the Straight punches are thrown with a vertical fist, so that the bone alignment allows for a punch that is perfectly straight, a'la Dempsey, because of course in Physics they always teach you that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

    Sometimes a Diagonal fist is used because the Bone alignment is stronger, usually this is used with the Rear Straight. The hooks are more efficient also because they aren't opened up as much, because a tighter arc is quicker and also less telegraphic.

    The transfer of weight from the back leg onto the front (or vice versa with the lead hook and uppercut) along with the rotation of the hips and feet provides lots of power without pulling back the hands or opening up the hooks, thus negating the need to lob punches off of the shoulders like in MMA/Kickboxing.


    I mean, i could go on but i'm just trying to give a basic summary of the physics behind it here and the little details get kinda tedious.
  8. KhorneliusPraxx is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 9:01am

    supporting member
     Style: JackOAllTradesMasterONone

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - Joe
    so far all I have achieved is thunder from my ass
    I find that when you are mounted on their head, getting ready to crank that Kimura, THAT is the perfect time to release the ass thunder.
    Real Join Date: Nov. 2003

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbert
    "Driving without blood is surprisingly difficult."
  9. Alex8876 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 9:02am


     Style: Wing Chun Gung Fu/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by v1y
    So basically what you're saying is that ALL mma fighters are stupid because if they were rational they would spend more (any?) time perfecting (working on?) this technique, right?

    That, or the technique is not what you claim to be.

    I mean, you could be right, it could theoretically revolutionize the fight game -- but it's about occam's razor. The mere fact that nobody has come in with this technique to 'dominate everyone' is sufficient evidence to believe (for the time being) that it is not what you claim.
    Maybe they either just dont really know about it, or arent willing to take the time to train it, or maybe they just say "hey, i'm good with what i already know...why should i change what i'm doing if it's already working???"

    That doesnt mean it's not viable.
  10. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 9:05am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JKD is not an art but a Bruce Lee's philosophy on fighting...
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