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  1. recourse is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2007 9:38pm


     Style: BJJ / MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkonis
    OK SLICK, to start with notice the name ? Sharkonis, lets guess what nationality that come from, not forum call sign but family name ,

    Second point, pank got its name out there to sell memberships in McDojos. What you are refering to is commonly known as GRECO-ROMAN WRESTLING.

    You my freind are watching to much TV, i,e, The Discovery Channel. get your facts, then we can chat

    You don't believe that there was any ancient pankration? I'd agree that what is done today is just such a thing but that doesn't through out of the fact that there was pankration.
  2. dwak is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2007 10:02pm


     Style: Wrestling, bjj, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh I know what I'm talking about, I've competed in Greco for 6 years I know exactly what it is, I also know that Greco-roman wrestling started in france in the 19th century, did you?
    Modern Pankration is NOT what I am talking about, perhaps you should look into a few people named: Arrichion, Dioxippus, or Polydamos they competed in pankration in the ancient olympics but of course you already knew that, just chose to ignore it. Of course you also know legend says it was invented by hercules and Theseus which even though it is probably just a legend definitely puts it in an era far predating Bruce Lee, you also of course know about xenophanes who wrote about pankration in the 5th century BC. and you yourself were probably the one who faked all those vases and other ancient works depicting/describing Pankration, and describing it as a different event than wrestling(which by the way has absolutely no connection to modern greco-roman either). so I guess since you already knew all that your just an idiot.

    And even if I were wrong about pankration JKD is still preceded by the kodokan's challenges, legitimate professional wrestling, vale tudo, the gracie challenge, anytime praticioners of 2 different martial arts had a bar fight.

    And for your information I DON'T OWN A TV

    Also do you really believe their is more than one MMA because your statement certainly seems to imply that, and are you claiming JKD is actually an art?

    Do your own goddamn homework before you talk to me about thing you are obviously quite ignorant about, and by the way yes I am familiar with the name Sarkonis, but I don't give a damn where the hell your from.
    Last edited by dwak; 10/13/2007 10:06pm at .
  3. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2007 10:11pm


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    No, no it wasn't. we had pankration at some godawfully long time ago, several thousand years BC. there were exhibition matches all over the place in the 19th century, there was professional wrestling in the 19th century, there was vale tudo and the gracie challenge in brazil starting about the 1920's, there were the people Kano sent all around the world to promote judo, the kodokan had challenge matches against all sorts of jujitsu schools for many years, and I'm sure I'm forgetting many examples. So no JKD is by no means one of the first MMA's. if there is even such a thing as an MMA. and wether it is or isn't has absolutely nothing to do with anything brandon lee may have said.
    I know the point you are making, but it is not technically correct. Challenge matches are NOT mma - they are inter-style fights a la the early UFC's. Remember that the protaganists were stating "Our style is best". JKD states "No style is best"

    MMA is a contemporary style that is a result of evolution from those challenge matches.
  4. dwak is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2007 10:30pm


     Style: Wrestling, bjj, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event. I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those. however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.
    However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot). Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu. I think shoot fighting may as well.
    Last edited by dwak; 10/13/2007 10:36pm at .
  5. Sharkonis is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2007 10:57pm


     Style: Tae Kwon Do, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by recourse
    You don't believe that there was any ancient pankration? I'd agree that what is done today is just such a thing but that doesn't through out of the fact that there was pankration.
    Im not say that at all, I suggest you use the internet search engines on the topic. I choose not to offended anyone by what I know to true,
  6. Sharkonis is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2007 11:04pm


     Style: Tae Kwon Do, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event. I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those. however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.
    However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot). Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu. I think shoot fighting may as well.
    You are partially correct, yet incorrect. When I hear the term MmA, I apply it to myself as a practioner of half a dozen arts over a 30 year period and training in MMA is not event. There for it would be senseless to claim MMA as event rather than what it trully is , Straight forward, no tradition,
    right out of the box on " lessons on how to stomp ass.
  7. recourse is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2007 12:15am


     Style: BJJ / MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkonis
    Im not say that at all, I suggest you use the internet search engines on the topic. I choose not to offended anyone by what I know to true,
    What would I be looking for on these internet search engines? What the hell does the second sentance mean? You choose not to be offnded? You choose not to offend? Please clearify.
  8. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2007 11:12am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event.
    Only latterly - they were called NHB in the beginning

    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those.
    These are strategies rather than styles. Compare this to boxing when you have dancers, boxers, brawlers, counter-punchers etc

    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.
    fair enough - we have an "agree to disagree"! This happens occasionally on bullshido...please do not be alarmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(
    Pro-wrestling less so. It was a composite of other WRESTLING styles, not other styles per se. Arguably early 19th century boxing was more of an MMA as it contained punches, kicks and the odd throw or two (look up "cross buttock"...just like a hip throw).

    Pankration is closer to the mark, but even this was considered a form in it's own right rather thana synthesis of separate styles. It is possible that it was a mixture of wrestling and boxing (both events in the ancient world) with a different rules set.

    However, don't foregt that it "died out". Interestingly, JKD was never claimed to be anything new by Bruce - it was a "rediscovery" of the original intention of combative systems

    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot).
    100% correct

    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu.
    Judo is another school of JJ - that is why it is not strictly an MMA per se (more of MJJ!)

    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    I think shoot fighting may as well.
    Possibly - although this came AFTER JKD - 1976 I think with Inoki

    JKD and MMA have the same philosophy for different goals - "take what works". Like I said in an earlier post, my JKD includes stick, knife, firearms as well as H2H. Most modern MMA competitions tend to frown upon the use of guns in teh cage...)

    It is a PRINCIPLE not an exhaustive list of techniques (like some on here seem to be claiming).
  9. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2007 9:13pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event. I don't think you can say there is any one style which is MMA, I believe modern MMA has 3 main styles which are Sprawl and brawl, Ground and pound, and submissions, and variations and combinations of those. however I can see where you come from and why you would consider it a style.
    However, Pankration and early professional wrestling still fit the bill in that case as 'mma's' that long preceded JKD(which I don't think is a style anyway so the whole point is moot). Judo fits too, as it was created using elements of several different schools/styles of jujitsu. I think shoot fighting may as well.
    It would seem MMA has evolved into having a dual meaning. Many actually profess to teach it as a style these days while others use it solely to refer to an explicit rule set.

    Ultimately it matters not whether those who practice "MMA" endorse a unique style set or not, but if what they're doing is practical and effective. Arguing over martial arts taxonomy is too difficult given most modern MA styles are a blend of things and technically "mixed" martial arts. It would seem according to this model that MMA(style), MMA(sport), and mixed martial arts are each different things and at this point I stop caring.

    I've long since given up arguing over whether JKD is a style, but I won't stop questioning training methods.
  10. KhorneliusPraxx is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 8:19am

    supporting member
     Style: JackOAllTradesMasterONone

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwak
    I believe that MMA is not a style it is an event.
    in the 90s yes...unfortunately, it has developed into a style.
    Real Join Date: Nov. 2003

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbert
    "Driving without blood is surprisingly difficult."

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