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  1. SamHarber is offline

    Taking a break

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 1:32pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DANINJA
    what has punching through samurai armour got to do with wing chun wall bag training?
    Because the real ?ng ?un comes from Okinawa.

    Jesus.. do you guys not read your history?
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
  2. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 2:04pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    Proof please.
    What kind of proof would you like?
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  3. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 2:07pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    The main problem I have with hitting some thing as solid as wall bag is it encourages you not to drive your punch into the target for fear of fucking up your hand/wrist weakening your punches.

    Edit: Dont hit rocks. That's as retarded as trying to fight a street.
    What if a street talked trash about your mom? :)

    What do you mean by 'drive your punch into the target etc.'?
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  4. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 2:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    What kind of proof would you like?
    Any kind, but verifiable would be nice.
    Scientific or medical journals, something like that would be great.
  5. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 2:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Well, we know that weightlifting strengthens the bones. Although I thought it does so by increasing cross-sectional area, not by changing density.
    Anyway the same mechanism is at work here, whilest the stimulous of punching may be significantly shorter repeated punching should encorage bone growth in the same way.

    In short punching makes your hands bigger and harder. Nothing suprising and nothing unique to ? ?.

    The main problem I have with hitting some thing as solid as wall bag is it encourages you not to drive your punch into the target for fear of fucking up your hand/wrist weakening your punches.

    Edit: Dont hit rocks. That's as retarded as trying to fight a street.
    First off, the way weight training strengths bones is though progressive ZERO impact resistence training, NOT through IMPACT, BALLISTIC trauma, which is what is happening when you strike a hard target.
    Lets not comaore the tow.
  6. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 2:27pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All I have is my personal experience. To me 'increasing bone density' just means I can hit harder things harder. Does that make sense? :)

    Possible alternatives:

    I'm deadening the nerves in my hands to where I don't feel the pain of hitting hard things as much. My bones and skin have not gotten any tougher, I just don't feel it.
    -The answer to this is that I can still feel sensation just fine in my hands and knuckles. I suppose that the sensation could be decreasing too slowly for me to notice, but it hasn't decreased any appreciable level yet.

    Another alternative:
    No bone hardening, just better alignment of the bones in my hands from repeated training helps cushion the shock of impact.
    -This is probably true either way, I don't know if it could really account for the results I've gotten though.

    As for scientific or medical journals, I ain't got any. But it's ok, I don't really care if you believe me or not Ronin. I'm not advocating this kind of training for other people AT ALL. You should definately NOT start this without personal guidance from someone who knows a hell of a lot more about this then I do. I'm just describing one of my training methods. Because I like exchanging information about martial arts. :)
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  7. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 4:09pm

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    First off, the way weight training strengths bones is though progressive ZERO impact resistence training, NOT through IMPACT, BALLISTIC trauma, which is what is happening when you strike a hard target.
    Lets not comaore the tow.
    Impact based conditioniing is going to increase trauma to the joints compared to weightlifting, but I would be increadably suprised if the microfractures => bone growth process of weightlifting does not occure.

    Obviously if you were to use such a method you would have to hit something with some give in it and not wail away at it as if there was no tomorow, else good bye hands.

    I agree with you mainly, wall bags are not the way to develope a powerful punch. I dont use them but I think they should give you harder hands especialy if the alternitive is no conditioning at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  8. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 4:19pm

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    What if a street talked trash about your mom? :)

    What do you mean by 'drive your punch into the target etc.'?
    Unlike rocks, people and heavy bags give when you hit them. To make a punch count it is important to hit into the 'object' and not to stop your punch on the surface.

    And if a street trash talked my mum I would totaly go godzilla on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  9. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 5:04pm


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, don't worry, it's mainly to train hard hands. I punch people a lot too. :)

    You'd go godzilla on a street? WTF???!!!
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  10. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 5:09pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    Because I like exchanging information about martial arts. :)
    How about exchanging information that isn't unsafe and useless?
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