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  1. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 11:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_steve
    I guess wood isn't hard?

    If a Japanese warrior wearing wooden armor and armed with a sword threatens you, you only get one shot to incapacitate or kill him (ikken hisatsu) with your bare hands, unless you happened to have a grain thresher (nunchaku) or seed planter (sai) handy. You better make damn sure you can punch through his armor and hit him.

    Hence, Okinawan Karate used makiwara and other forms of hand conditioning in order to accomplish this task. This archaic purpose nowadays is no longer necessary.

    For the love of Buddha !!!

    I swear to you, the onlyone that believe that **** must be Westerners !!

    IF ANYONE can punch through samurai armour, the Samurai would NOThave ruled Okinawa for as long as they did !

    Stop it, just stop it ok?

    To quote Morio Higaonna, arguably the best Okinanwan Goju man around:
    " Punch through armour ? "
    " HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!!!! "
  2. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 11:21am


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TaeBo_Master
    Not that I'm condoning wall bag training... but they do have some give. Usually the filled portion is a couple inches thick, and will dent about an inch or so. It's not much...
    Maybe I should have mentioned this in my first post...or given a 3-dimensional picture of a wall-bag. :)
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  3. DANINJA is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 11:23am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what has punching through samurai armour got to do with wing chun wall bag training?
  4. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 11:26am


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_steve
    I guess wood isn't hard?

    If a Japanese warrior wearing wooden armor and armed with a sword threatens you, you only get one shot to incapacitate or kill him (ikken hisatsu) with your bare hands, unless you happened to have a grain thresher (nunchaku) or seed planter (sai) handy. You better make damn sure you can punch through his armor and hit him.

    Hence, Okinawan Karate used makiwara and other forms of hand conditioning in order to accomplish this task. This archaic purpose nowadays is no longer necessary.
    Yeesh. I was asking about makiwara out of curiosity. Do you train this yourself, or do you know anyone who does? Or are you just quoting sources? Either way, I think anyone who trains to hit barehanded would want harder hands.
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  5. v1o is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 11:28am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: WSL Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bodar
    Your level of delusion is staggering. You are truly a master of tard-fu. :disgust:

    What do you weigh, for argument's sake?
    Athritis is mostly hereditary (sp) if you dont damage yourself on the walll you will be fine.

    I'm about 83kilo
    why?
  6. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 11:38am


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lwflee
    From: http://www.medcohealth.com/medco/con...ticleID=105650

    Osteoarthritis

    Osteoarthritis is the most common type of arthritis. This condition involves a breakdown of joint cartilage, the part of the joint that cushions the ends of bones. When cartilage wears away, bones rub together, causing pain and loss of movement.

    People of middle-age and older are most often affected by osteoarthritis. It accounts for approximately half of all office visits to doctors and other healthcare professionals for arthritis related joint problems. Osteoarthritis may cause a range of symptoms from short periods of joint stiffness to an inability to use the affected joint. The knees, hips, spine, neck, back as well as some joints in the hands and feet are most commonly affected.

    Factors contributing to the development of osteoarthritis include:

    *

    Aging
    *

    Heredity
    *

    Obesity
    *

    Repetitive movement of a joint
    *

    Previous injury to a joint

    Treatment for osteoarthritis is aimed at reducing pain and improving joint movement. Available options include exercise, medication, heat/cold therapy, joint protection, weight control, and surgery.

    ----


    Therefore, we see that injuries to a joint is one of the causes of osteoarthritis. We cannot control the genes we inherit, but we sure can take care not to **** up our joints.
    True, repetetive trauma to joints can cause arthritis over time. Thats why wing chun guys use dit da jow, along with doing a shitload of exercises to keep the joints in the hand strong and mobile.

    The main movement in wing chun to keep the hands and wrists strong is the huen sao. Here's a short clip that features a lot of them.
    http://appliedkungfu.com/brice/my3.n...f?OpenDocument
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  7. grond is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 11:42am


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DANINJA
    wall-bag training is ONE of many tools to train your punches.

    The difference between a punch bag and a wall bag is that the bag can move freely while the wall is immoveable so It trains you to deal with recoil force.
    I would advise agianst filling your bag with rocks or steel ball bearings etc.I use rice so there is some give.

    The two things that a wall bag specifically meant to help you train is:

    1.hitting the bag so force comes back to you and absorbed by your stance acting as a spring between contact point and ground.
    2.minimize force coming back to you by relaxing certain muscles and applying the force in the correct way

    Some tips on wall bag training:

    1.punch slightly upwards so it presses yourself down into the ground i.e improving your stance as you punch
    2.punch from your elbow like a piston and make sure you are close to bag (so that when you make impact the elbow is low/deep rather than extended)
    3.practise your turning/shifting punches so that the punch is coordinated with your body(to get the body behind the punch) as you go side to side
    4.quality is more important than quantity so dont crank out the reps.Short sets for less than 20sec with rest in between.Try to do everything relaxed,have nice position,precise and explosive etc

    I hope this helps
    Thanks again Daninja. I've also been taught that training on the wall-bags develops proper bone alignment in the hands and wrists for using the punch.
    Plus, it increases bone-density, thus the 'bone hardening'.
    Here, check this link out: http://www.wingchunkuen.com/why/colu...on03_fist.html
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  8. MEGA JESUS-SAMA is offline
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    **** you math class

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 1:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, Ballet, Archery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Broken
    And I know for a fact the much samurai armour was made out of lacquered bamboo.
    And I know for a fact that you don't know what you're talking about. The armor was made out of laquered leather or laquered metal. Wood doesn't protect against steel. It's not flexible like leather and doesn't slide over itself like steel. It's not an effective armoring material and the idea that the Japanese would use it anyway is ludicrous.

    If a Japanese warrior wearing wooden armor and armed with a sword threatens you, you only get one shot to incapacitate or kill him (ikken hisatsu) with your bare hands, unless you happened to have a grain thresher (nunchaku) or seed planter (sai) handy. You better make damn sure you can punch through his armor and hit him.
    Nunchaku are probably a more modern development, and sai, if they came from Okinawa, are known to not be seed planters anyway. They were a weapon made to be used as such.
  9. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 1:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by grond
    Plus, it increases bone-density, thus the 'bone hardening'.
    Here, check this link out: http://www.wingchunkuen.com/why/colu...on03_fist.html

    Proof please.
  10. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 1:26pm

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    Proof please.
    Well, we know that weightlifting strengthens the bones. Although I thought it does so by increasing cross-sectional area, not by changing density.
    Anyway the same mechanism is at work here, whilest the stimulous of punching may be significantly shorter repeated punching should encorage bone growth in the same way.

    In short punching makes your hands bigger and harder. Nothing suprising and nothing unique to ? ?.

    The main problem I have with hitting some thing as solid as wall bag is it encourages you not to drive your punch into the target for fear of fucking up your hand/wrist weakening your punches.

    Edit: Dont hit rocks. That's as retarded as trying to fight a street.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
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