Wall-bag Training

**bodar** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 1:28am

Originally Posted by v1o

I disagree, pound for pound a well versed kung fu man can hit harder. I know, ive been thrown across rooms by their strikes.

Originally Posted by v1o

Who told you that you get athritis from hitting wall bags?

You wouldnt 80+ yr/old sifus still teaching if they did.

I'm sure you its inherited

Your level of delusion is staggering. You are truly a master of tard-fu. :disgust:

What do you weigh, for argument's sake?

**Physics_Nazi** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 5:03am

I personally can't see how hitting something that does damage to my hand is going to increase my punching effectiveness in any way.

Shin conditioning makes sense to me because of the reluctance factor already mentioned, but I really don't think its all that relevant when you are striking a soft and squishy face/neck etc. Maybe the skull would hurt but I don't think this justifies zen self torture. Spend that time learning how to hit soft targets!

I can see benifits in hitting a stationary target. You understand how much reaction force your stance can cope with without shifting. This increases punching penetration into the target. It would be a good idea if the wall bag absorbed most the impact...stiff foam or something. A hard target seems stupid to me.

I think its a bit simplistic to say you should only strike moving targets or only spar to improve. There are drills and excercises in, for example, tennis, they don't just throw a racket at you and say "ok..play". Of course, actually playing tennis or fighting should not be neglected.

**DANINJA** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 5:53am

wall-bag training is ONE of many tools to train your punches.

The difference between a punch bag and a wall bag is that the bag can move freely while the wall is immoveable so It trains you to deal with recoil force.
I would advise agianst filling your bag with rocks or steel ball bearings etc.I use rice so there is some give.

The two things that a wall bag specifically meant to help you train is:

1.hitting the bag so force comes back to you and absorbed by your stance acting as a spring between contact point and ground.
2.minimize force coming back to you by relaxing certain muscles and applying the force in the correct way

Some tips on wall bag training:

1.punch slightly upwards so it presses yourself down into the ground i.e improving your stance as you punch
2.punch from your elbow like a piston and make sure you are close to bag (so that when you make impact the elbow is low/deep rather than extended)
3.practise your turning/shifting punches so that the punch is coordinated with your body(to get the body behind the punch) as you go side to side
4.quality is more important than quantity so dont crank out the reps.Short sets for less than 20sec with rest in between.Try to do everything relaxed,have nice position,precise and explosive etc

I hope this helps

**SamHarber** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 6:26am

Originally Posted by v1o

I disagree, pound for pound a well versed kung fu man can hit harder. I know, ive been thrown across rooms by their strikes.

At the UK throwdown, Asia can use a boxing punch on you, and then a Baji punch.
We'll see then.

As for being thrown across rooms, that more to do with upsetting balance rather than kinetic impact.

**Ronin** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 6:53am

If I may:

First of all, modern training methods have been proven the be superior, results wise, than the older, obsolete methods.
Of that there is NO doubt.

Second, conditioning tools like the makiwara were used to strength the wrist/elbow/shoulder to the stress of impact because that was the best tool available, they were NOT used to harden the knuckles, this is a by product of makiwara training, not the goal.

Having done both Makiwara and heavy bag work I can see, without a doubt, for the development of power, the Heavy Bag is tops.
The makiwara CAN still serve a purpose, if for nothing else, to get you used to bareknuckle striking.

As for the wall bag, I have used it and it is a good tool for developing short distance striking, "inch power" if you prefer.

You do NOT strike at it full force and never with full bodyweight behind it, you will either do damage to your hands or the wall.

Its a tool, like an other, and like any other tool, its only as good or as useful as the person using it and the REASOn it is being used.

As for the pound-per-pound comment about kung fu guys hitting harder than pro boxers.
Unless you have some study to offest ALL they other ones that say this is wrong, keep the BS to yourself.

**Traditional Tom** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 6:58am

I was going to comment and pull the average "wtf you st00pid n00b, punching a wall bag is dumb" but realized I didn't have any proof, and on top of that, not much experience with wall bags so I couldn't really give a 'good' opinion.
Thank god geezers like ronin and TBM are still around ;)

**Broken** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 7:04am

Originally Posted by MEGA JESUS-SAN

I know for a fact that samurai didn't wear wooden armor, ever. I'm not why the sites quoted by Samurai Steve would say this, especially considering that wood doesn't stand up to spears or arrows; at least not in any quntity that a person could wear.

Japanese battlefield armor was always made out of leather or metal, with amounts of silk, every time forever.

And I know for a fact the much samurai armour was made out of lacquered bamboo.

**Mr.Miyagi** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 7:56am

Geez, just do pushups on your knuckles...I find this works better. Hit a heavy bag after. If you dont find the knuckle push ups doing it properly then like roll out onto them as you do, start on carpet, work your way up to concrete if you want?

**grond** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 10:02am

Originally Posted by samurai_steve

http://www.shimakarate.com/history_karate.shtml

http://whitecollarboxing.com/karthis.htm

Why would you expect a tradition of japanese MA to apply to a chinese system? Besides the fact that I've never heard of anyone wearing wooden armor before, I really doubt that is what this kind of conditioning was used for in the first place. I think it's so you can hit hard things(like people's heads) without breaking your hands.

**Judah Maccabee** · Posted On: 2/14/2005 10:12am

I think it's so you can hit hard things(like people's heads) without breaking your hands.

I guess wood isn't hard?

If a Japanese warrior wearing wooden armor and armed with a sword threatens you, you only get one shot to incapacitate or kill him (ikken hisatsu) with your bare hands, unless you happened to have a grain thresher (nunchaku) or seed planter (sai) handy. You better make damn sure you can punch through his armor and hit him.

Hence, Okinawan Karate used makiwara and other forms of hand conditioning in order to accomplish this task. This archaic purpose nowadays is no longer necessary.